Using Cores

[yuliya]

Tracy,

well when you said that you used two double length laces of roo, that makes sense now. I was trying to figure out the way to pull all 4 through the bolt, because I felt that 2 would create the weakest point at the bolt as it's only going to be attached by 2 strings instead of 4, I guess if the core is strong than it might work.

I also wonder if I can tie the core on itself through the braid on the back braiding somehow. hmm.

I still would love to see the pictures of your leads, didn't you mention in other posts that you used rein knots at the snap and at the handle?

woody2shoes, I saw that tutorial, but I did not think the core there provides for any strength, at least not what I was looking for.

Vaquero1, yeah I guess I should buy it. For some reason I got Gail's book instead.

Yuliya

[ShannonS]

As I am the owner/braider of "Leashes by Design", I can tell you what I do, since you referenced my site.

All of my leashes have a heavy sinew core. A single strand of paracord is too thick. A 4-strand round braid done correctly (baring thick lace) is around 1/8" thick, a paracord core will distort the braid (in my opinion). All items need cores. Yes, kangaroo is strong, but the cores add extra strength, plus prevent excess stretching. I have no issues putting a 80# dog on one of my 4 strand leads. However, if the dog pulls (or has issues), the lead is going to cut into your hand, given its thin diameter. Err on the side of safety. The lead size should fit the dog.

There are greater issues with inadequate hardware being used, than the braided lead itself. If you put a small hardware with the push together type connection for the swivel...don't expect it to hold a dog over 20#. You also can not use 2 strand of laces doubled over the snap to braid a 4 strand lead...definitely not strong enough.

The cores in my product go through the entire round braid. Before back braiding, I snip the excess core off at the end of the round braid (after it's completely rolled and stretched). You do not want to be able to see the core on a finished lead. This is the only way to hide it completely (in my opinion). The weakest part of the lead is the connections. Done properly, the back braiding adds strength, it doesn't take it away.

Shannon

[yuliya]

As I am the owner/braider of "Leashes by Design", I can tell you what I do, since you referenced my site.

All of my leashes have a heavy sinew core. A single strand of paracord is too thick. A 4-strand round braid done correctly (baring thick lace) is around 1/8" thick, a paracord core will distort the braid (in my opinion). All items need cores. Yes, kangaroo is strong, but the cores add extra strength, plus prevent excess stretching. I have no issues putting a 80# dog on one of my 4 strand leads. However, if the dog pulls (or has issues), the lead is going to cut into your hand, given its thin diameter. Err on the side of safety. The lead size should fit the dog.

There are greater issues with inadequate hardware being used, than the braided lead itself. If you put a small hardware with the push together type connection for the swivel...don't expect it to hold a dog over 20#. You also can not use 2 strand of laces doubled over the snap to braid a 4 strand lead...definitely not strong enough.

The cores in my product go through the entire round braid. Before back braiding, I snip the excess core off at the end of the round braid (after it's completely rolled and stretched). You do not want to be able to see the core on a finished lead. This is the only way to hide it completely (in my opinion). The weakest part of the lead is the connections. Done properly, the back braiding adds strength, it doesn't take it away.

Shannon

Shannon, thank you very much for your answer!

I agree about the paracord core. One of my friends sent me a picture of her leash that she purchased somewhere with the paracord inside, I thought it looked very uneven. of course it's hard to say much from a photo. I held a couple of roo leashes in my hand in the last couple of weeks, only one truly impressed me, but it was braided with about 1/4"thick strands, maybe it had something to do with it:-)

I actually really like your leashes. I've seen bunch of photos of leashes made by different people since the time I started looking into it and I think yours are some of the best I've seen out there, at least what I can see from the pictures:-)

what is a "push together" connection? I was thinking about using small snap bolts, you know things that regular leashes have, but small.:-)

also how wide lace do you use for your 4 strand leash? And for the thicker leashes I assume you just pull your strands upbraided through the beads right, because it seems to me that 6 or 8 strands braid will be way too thick to put beads on. Do you use real sinew? because I couldn't find real sinew strings only fake ones:-)

Yuliya

[ShannonS]

Thank you for the compliment Yuliya, I take great pride in my leads and collars.

On the hardware picture - #2 and #3 would be (what I call) push together. They work fine for small dogs, but even a correction/lunging dog, etc., can pop one of these snaps apart. The other type of connection between the swivel section and the bolt snap is MUCH more secure. And, actually, if someone is wanting to put a large breed dog on a 4 strand lead, I will often recommend a loop end. This will secure semi-permanently to the choke collar but is stronger than a snap. I don't want a larger snap on a 4 strand lead if possible, as it looks out of place.

Sinews that I use:

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/3613-00.aspx

or

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/en-usd/search/searchresults/11208-00.aspx

Depending on the dog's size, I will use 2 or more strands of material. I only use the heavier one on giant breed dogs and 8 strand leads.

4 strand leads ~ 1/8" thick

6 strand leads ~ 3/16" thick

8 strand leads ~ 1/4" thick

Almost all of my Pandora style beads will fit a 6 strand lead. You can round braid through the beads on the 4 strand leads if you want, but it will not work for the 6 or 8 strand leads. What I do recommend however, is a terminal knot to hold the beads in place. If you add beads to a finished lead and then add a braided button on either side to try to hold it in place, the beads will move on the lead over time. I add all of my beads during the leash making process. My beads will NEVER move on a lead.

All of my products are braided with 1/8" lace. I have used the 1/4" lace before (ends up about the same thickness as an 8 strand, 1/8" lace lead), but I don't care for them as well. Beads can not be added correctly to a lead braided with 1/4" lace, however you could still add braided buttons. I use 3/32" lace for all of my braided buttons. Some people use 1/8" lace for their buttons, but I don't like the result.

Shannon

[Chelsea09]

You also can not use 2 strand of laces doubled over the snap to braid a 4 strand lead...definitely not strong enough.

The cores in my product go through the entire round braid. Before back braiding, I snip the excess core off at the end of the round braid (after it's completely rolled and stretched). You do not want to be able to see the core on a finished lead. This is the only way to hide it completely (in my opinion). The weakest part of the lead is the connections. Done properly, the back braiding adds strength, it doesn't take it away.

Shannon

I just started braiding kangaroo lace, and that is what I have been doing so far (using 2 strands, doubled over the snap to create 4). If I'm using a core, does it really matter if the kangaroo is braided in a small loop to go through the snap, vs just tying the core to the snap and doubling 2 strands of kangaroo through the leash snap?

Also, if you're braiding the whole length first without attaching it to the snap using 4 separate strands, how are you tying the core back to itself to create the loop for the snap and the big loop for the handle? If the core isn't tied back into the leash, I don't see how it would be providing any added strength?

[ShannonS]

I can understand where you are coming from Chelsea, I guess my methods are built more on my own past experience. All leather is going to stretch. I have been asked numerous times, if I can "fix" other vendors leads that are attached in the method that you are referring to. The leather stretches and the point that the two strands go over the hardware becomes weaker until it finally breaks. My cores do not tie back onto themselves, but I do think they provide some strength to the lead. But, as I mentioned in a previous post, I think a lot of the strength also comes from how well the back braiding is done. When I first started braiding (8+ years ago), I actually did a 4 strand flat braid over the hardware connection to cover the core tied to the snap. But, over time, the core started showing more and more. If I'm going to charge $100+ for a lead, I don't want to see the core. I can honestly say (knock on wood) that I've never had a lead break, at the snap or anywhere else. (Knock on wood again!!!)

That being said, I have had to replace a couple of small, broken snaps on leads before. When I pull apart the back braiding to remove the broken snap, the core is still completely through the round braiding portion. However, if my leads were not rolled and stretched properly before back braiding, the core would be pulled out of the ends after being used for a little while. I highly recommend Gail Hought's books for any braiders, and this is the method she uses for all of her braided products as well.

Shannon

[yuliya]

I highly recommend Gail Hought's books for any braiders, and this is the method she uses for all of her braided products as well.

Shannon

Interesting. I have her first book and she doesn't really talk about cores in there. I was wondering if it is possible to use some kind of knot to reinforce the snap to brain connection in cases when leather is folded over the snap rather then back braided.

Something that goes through the braid and over the snap again so at the end it has more than 2 strands of leather going over it. something like the rein/ring knot, but I am not sure. anyone knows of a kind of knot that can be used for that purpose?

[roo4u]

in our 10 years of selling our leads wholesale i never had a lead break even though we had just the two strands through the snap eye on literally thousands of leads sold.....the limiting of stretch by the core had alot to do with it. I did in fact repair many leads made by other braiders where the back braiding had come undone. many wanted us to change the leads from the standard back braiding to the knot finish that we used but that was reserved for our leads. I actually had another braider buy a leash from us and she then proceeded to take the knot apart to see how we did it so she could copy us but she ended up with just a couple bits of lace and no clue on how to. the lead she bought was a slip lead with a sliding knot which she also took apart trying to copy....and couldnt and still cant many years later.

we also did the four strand flat through the hardware for a particular style of lead we sold and i never had the core show.

[Chelsea09]

I can understand where you are coming from Chelsea, I guess my methods are built more on my own past experience. All leather is going to stretch. I have been asked numerous times, if I can "fix" other vendors leads that are attached in the method that you are referring to. The leather stretches and the point that the two strands go over the hardware becomes weaker until it finally breaks. My cores do not tie back onto themselves, but I do think they provide some strength to the lead. But, as I mentioned in a previous post, I think a lot of the strength also comes from how well the back braiding is done. When I first started braiding (8+ years ago), I actually did a 4 strand flat braid over the hardware connection to cover the core tied to the snap. But, over time, the core started showing more and more. If I'm going to charge $100+ for a lead, I don't want to see the core. I can honestly say (knock on wood) that I've never had a lead break, at the snap or anywhere else. (Knock on wood again!!!)

That being said, I have had to replace a couple of small, broken snaps on leads before. When I pull apart the back braiding to remove the broken snap, the core is still completely through the round braiding portion. However, if my leads were not rolled and stretched properly before back braiding, the core would be pulled out of the ends after being used for a little while. I highly recommend Gail Hought's books for any braiders, and this is the method she uses for all of her braided products as well.

Shannon

Oh, ok. That makes more sense, I couldn't figure out how you were reattaching the core Thanks for the tips! I've been using a heavy thread/sinew core and tying it back to itself, but that makes braiding around it difficult. I'm going to give it a try with your method