How Dangerous Is Fiebing's Oil Dye?

[Chavez]

Hi!

Having read a few topics on water-based dyes, I decided that I'd really like to know just how dangeroud fiebing's oil pro dyes (and isopropyl in particular) are.

Firstly, in terms of inhalation while dyeing: is this a case of a couple dead brain cells or is it so hazardous that I should try and reduce my exposure to it as much as possible (wear a gas mask ) ?

Secondly, how safe is this dye if it is applied to a product for a little kid (say 2y/o) who might chew on it and do any other crazy things to it that kids tend to do (say, shove it up his nose:) )?

Thank you for your advice!

[terrymac]

If I am not mistaking, Fiebing's Spirit dyes are alcohol based while the Pro oil dyes are oil based. In either case, there is not much odor to either one, and I really don't believe you will need a gas mask. Can't answer the part about kids chewing, all I know is my kids were raised around dyed leather, and they seemed to have turned out fine with kids of their own. That was back before there was anything such as water based dyes for leather.

Terry

[ChuckBurrows]

The oil dyes are NOT oil based - see the MSDS - they are an "improved" version of the standard spirit dyes per Fiebings.

FWIW - any type of spirit based dye (many if not most contain not only alcohol, but toluene, acetone, xylene, and other toxic chemicals.) So yes they can be dangerous to one's health especially with long term exposure. Kidny and liver problesm are some of the most common and some of the hardest to detect with standardized testing. Personal note - I was diagnosed with stage 2 Non-alcoholic Steato Hepatitis (one step away from cirrohsis) about 12 years ago and the conclusion by the doctors (since I was not a heavy drinker and should not drink at all now) is that the root cause was/is due to exposure of toxic chemicals. I have worked as both a wood finisher and leather crafter for close to 50 years and in the old days such exposure was common since even common sense safety measures were often little used. Most of the common chemicals used in dying such as alcohol, acetone, etc. show up in the liver within 15 minutes and the body does not eliminate them easily if at all leading to cumulative effects that may not show up for years, when it is often too late to reverse the effects such as in my case.

Best advice: It is OK to use such dyes, but also to use common sense such as wearing good rubber gloves designed for chemical use, a good face mask with the proper filters (not just a dust mask) - reverse filter is even better but pricey, and a well ventilated area with a fan or two that blows the fumes away from onself. I still use such dyes when neede but limit my exposure as much as possible.

As for chewing on a piece of leather dyed with anything - not recommended no matter what dye - even a lot of the "natural" dyes can be toxic to the very young in particular.

[Chavez]

Thanks Chuck!

[katsass]

Hi!

Having read a few topics on water-based dyes, I decided that I'd really like to know just how dangeroud fiebing's oil pro dyes (and isopropyl in particular) are.

Firstly, in terms of inhalation while dyeing: is this a case of a couple dead brain cells or is it so hazardous that I should try and reduce my exposure to it as much as possible (wear a gas mask ) ?

Secondly, how safe is this dye if it is applied to a product for a little kid (say 2y/o) who might chew on it and do any other crazy things to it that kids tend to do (say, shove it up his nose:) )?

Thank you for your advice!

Chavez, Chuck covered it well. You can get a GOOD mask at Home Depot, or Lowes and/or OSH (most likely other too) for around $25 or so. A he said, make sure it's rated for chemical odor/solvent protection. My all-purpose shop is in a little 10'x12' building, and, especially in winter, is closed up pretty well. I ALWAYS use the mask when using the airbrush to apply dyes. The fumes will do nasty things to you. Ask me how I found that, out long ago. Mike

Edited April 8, 2012 by katsass

[TexasJack]

Chuck is about as knowledgeable as it gets on this subject, but let me add one thing. People safely handle very toxic chemicals every day without getting sick or dying. If you show a proper amount of respect for the chemicals you are handling, you can do the same. Generally, ingestion is the most dangerous, followed by inhalation, then skin absorption. Use gloves - better yet, make sure to use the right gloves - and proper ventilation with additional respiratory protection if necessary. Every chemical sold has a Material Safety Data Sheet, or MSDS that is publicly available. The easiest way to get one is by googling the product or by looking for MSDS on the company's web site. While MSDSs aren't particularly consistent, they do list the proper protective equipment (PPE) and the potential hazards associated with the chemicals in the product.

[Chavez]

Thanks!

I currently only use a spare room for small items (no airbrushing to apply paint, just daubers), so I guess I don't have much exposure at the moment.

However, I am planning to start dip-dyeing and making bigger items, so all your advice is very helpful, cause the amount fo fumes will soon go up!

Also I didn't realise that I need special gloves - I was just using regular rubber ones for general household use from local supermarket!

[TexasJack]

Fortunately, your local hardware store probably carries several types of gloves. Chemical-resistant gloves are made with different kinds of rubber: natural, butyl, neoprene, nitrile and fluorocarbon (viton); or various kinds of plastic: polyvinyl chloride (PVC), polyvinyl alcohol and polyethylene. Nitrile gloves are very good for chlorinated solvents, alcohols, and oils, but are not particularly good around aromatic solvents, ketones, or acetates.

Here's an MSDS for Fiebing's dye: MSDS

[Chavez]

Thanks!

Looking at pro oil dye's 3 main components which are isopropanol, ethyl acetate and xylene, would nitrile be the best all-rounder considering that isopropyl is also used to cut the dye?

Google says that it doesn't offer much protection from xylene and ethyl acetate, but there's no universal glove for this =(

[Shooter McGavin]

I use non-powdered nitrile gloves and have never had a problem other than last week when I was dip dying a bunch of green pieces and got a pinhole in the thumb of the glove. The dye is still wearing off lol.

[HerukaAvatar]

On 4/7/2012 at 6:49 AM, Chavez said:

Hi!

Having read a few topics on water-based dyes, I decided that I'd really like to know just how dangeroud fiebing's oil pro dyes (and isopropyl in particular) are.

Firstly, in terms of inhalation while dyeing: is this a case of a couple dead brain cells or is it so hazardous that I should try and reduce my exposure to it as much as possible (wear a gas mask ) ?

Secondly, how safe is this dye if it is applied to a product for a little kid (say 2y/o) who might chew on it and do any other crazy things to it that kids tend to do (say, shove it up his nose:) )?

Thank you for your advice!

In terms of hazmat: you can always look up : Hazmat isopropyl. However isopropyl is very similar (one extra carbon) to ethanol (or ethyl alcohol) which people drink to intoxicate themselves. That said, it's sold as a disinfectant you can directly apply to your blood. Not too bad there. However: "2-(2-ethoxyethoxy) ethanol" is a hazard, and pretty out of the ordinary, can cause birth defects (likely why it's banned in CA). If you, or your partner are expecting to conceive soon (a) you should stay away from it, (b) she should not be exposed  AT ALL. Methyl Violet is also listed in their ingredients which is also pretty bad. 

If you are are a regular user of these, you could try a gas mask, however most times these molecules (acetone, ethanol, isopropyl) are all small enough they will pass right through a gas mask, because these molecules are only slightly larger than say, oxygen, or carbon dioxide. So: most of the actual dye colors will be what's toxic I think - as well as 2-(2-ethoxyethoxy) ethanol . And gas masks will likely stop none of these solvents UNLESS you have a gasmask with an air  canister: ie. you are breathing from a tank. The hazards of chemistry is that oftentimes the molecules we're trying to hide from are... tiny. I'm saying this with a BS in Chemistry from many years ago. Chemists usually live about 10 years less than most folks.


below is chemicals in fiebing's dye.
https://www.weaverleather.com/docs/default-source/sds/50-2047-bk.pdf?sfvrsn=1e4792a7_0

[TomE]

My 2 cents as a retired biochemist. The notable ingredients of Fiebings Pro Dye - isopropanol, ethyl acetate, and xylene - are not highly toxic, and on par with paint thinner. Don’t drink it and avoid skin contact. It is flammable.  Isopropanol is the disinfecting alcohol used in doctors offices. Xylene and ethyl acetate are solvents found on lots of home products. Can cause respiratory problems and skin irritation if you have high level exposure. I’d be more concerned about the fire hazard. These are all highly volatile and won’t leave a residue in the leather after the dye is dry. The pigments in these dyes are not disclosed, could be problematic, but are present in smaller amounts. Bottom line - keep away from flame, wear gloves (nitrile), and use in a well ventilated area. 

[Doc Reaper]

So in short 

use in a well ventilated area (use a fan to push or pull fumes away) do my use ANY leather dye as mouthwash, gargle with, drink or smoke, do not bath or shower with (this includes douching), do not dry mass quantities and use as chewing gum, do not use as tatto ink, nor should it be used as eye makeup or liner, lipstick and rouge are strongly discouraged, do not use as rectal bleaching or coloring, do not dry to a powder and snort through nostrils, do not use as ear wash, should never be used as eye drops, 

I believe I have covered most of the things you should never do with any dye! But in the same breath I have never seen a puppy get sick after chewing up an expensive pair of Italian dress shoes! 
 

do not let children chew on leather - dyed or not!!!

[chuck123wapati]

5 hours ago, Doc Reaper said:

So in short 

use in a well ventilated area (use a fan to push or pull fumes away) do my use ANY leather dye as mouthwash, gargle with, drink or smoke, do not bath or shower with (this includes douching), do not dry mass quantities and use as chewing gum, do not use as tatto ink, nor should it be used as eye makeup or liner, lipstick and rouge are strongly discouraged, do not use as rectal bleaching or coloring, do not dry to a powder and snort through nostrils, do not use as ear wash, should never be used as eye drops, 

I believe I have covered most of the things you should never do with any dye! But in the same breath I have never seen a puppy get sick after chewing up an expensive pair of Italian dress shoes! 
 

do not let children chew on leather - dyed or not!!!

 

i have to laugh when i remember those chemistry sets that were sold back in the day for kids Christmas. They had all the goodies plus a Bunsen burner. Todays parents would literally freak out, all my dad told me was don't eat anything and don't burn the house down.

[chuck123wapati]

On 4/7/2012 at 7:49 AM, Chavez said:

Hi!

Having read a few topics on water-based dyes, I decided that I'd really like to know just how dangeroud fiebing's oil pro dyes (and isopropyl in particular) are.

Firstly, in terms of inhalation while dyeing: is this a case of a couple dead brain cells or is it so hazardous that I should try and reduce my exposure to it as much as possible (wear a gas mask ) ?

Secondly, how safe is this dye if it is applied to a product for a little kid (say 2y/o) who might chew on it and do any other crazy things to it that kids tend to do (say, shove it up his nose:) )?

Thank you for your advice!

you should read up on how dangerous refined sugar really is instead, it literally kills thousands of people daily. but it tastes so yummy and is so addicting no one cares. People feed it to their kids from birth unknowingly and ignorantly creating a life long addiction to one of the greatest health problems currently on earth.

[fredk]

15 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

 

i have to laugh when i remember those chemistry sets that were sold back in the day for kids Christmas. They had all the goodies plus a Bunsen burner. Todays parents would literally freak out, all my dad told me was don't eat anything and don't burn the house down.

My set had a meths burner, basically a small lidded jar with a wick. Fill with methylated sprits and light up. One time I spilt some meths across the kitchen worktop. Lit the burner . . . . . . . and the worktop was a-flame as well! I got the fire out with wet tea towels thrown on. No-one ever noticed the scorch marks on the cabinet doors above the worktop

When I got my set I was just told 'don't blow the house up, ha ha'    Nearly did a few times. Made plenty of 'stink bombs' and sold them to school chums for a goodly profit

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, fredk said:

My set had a meths burner, basically a small lidded jar with a wick. Fill with methylated sprits and light up. One time I spilt some meths across the kitchen worktop. Lit the burner . . . . . . . and the worktop was a-flame as well! I got the fire out with wet tea towels thrown on. No-one ever noticed the scorch marks on the cabinet doors above the worktop

When I got my set I was just told 'don't blow the house up, ha ha'    Nearly did a few times. Made plenty of 'stink bombs' and sold them to school chums for a goodly profit

lol mine  they call them bunsen burners over here, had denatured alcohol, dropped it on my bedroom rug, you cant see alcohol flames just a brown burn spot on the rug getting bigger and bigger. Got my butt tanned real good for that one.

[Tugadude]

I had the chemistry set as a kid and somehow I survived it.  What is missing these days is some good old common sense.  Anything can be dangerous in the wrong hands.  Even pure water can kill people if they drink too much and unfortunately it does happen.  I umpire little league and one of my fellow umps nearly died one extremely hot afternoon because all he did was drink water and his electrolytes got out of whack.  He was out (unconscious) for several minutes, scaring the crap out of everyone there.  Thank God the EMTs were able to get an IV into him and get him going pretty quickly.  

There is always risk when using chemicals.  Some are safer than others but each and every one has its recommended precautions and handling requirements.  

All can be found by looking up the product's SDS, Safety Data Sheet, which used to be called MSDS, Material Safety Data Sheet.  Don't know why it changed, but it did.

I use them regularly in my business of construction chemicals.  They literally can be a lifesaver.