Old leatherworking machines - Show and tell

[oldtimer]

Hello.

Got this pic on the mail today, along with pics of a whole bunch of old Singer and Adler cylinder - flatbed- and post machines from a shoe factory that closed about 30 years ago. (Also an offer to buy the lot) Unfortunately there are no tables and motors left for the machines. I must make a trip one of these days to have a look, and maybe do some business??

Has anybody an idea of what this could be ?? A splitter ??

/ Knut

Edited December 8, 2009 by oldtimer

[oldtimer]

This is also an unknown piece of iron ??

Any suggestions ??

/ Knut

[MikeCahill]

This is also an unknown piece of iron ??

Any suggestions ??

/ Knut

looks like a hand skiver to me with the cutter mounting missing (should be behind the feed wheel on the left of the picture, and hand crank wheel on the right hand end)

cheers

mike

[oldtimer]

looks like a hand skiver to me with the cutter mounting missing (should be behind the feed wheel on the left of the picture, and hand crank wheel on the right hand end)

cheers

mike

If many parts are missing I could use it as a door stop, huh?

/ Knut

[jimsaddler]

Hello.

Got this pic on the mail today, along with pics of a whole bunch of old Singer and Adler cylinder - flatbed- and post machines from a shoe factory that closed about 30 years ago. (Also an offer to buy the lot) Unfortunately there are no tables and motors left for the machines. I must make a trip one of these days to have a look, and maybe do some business??

Has anybody an idea of what this could be ?? A splitter ??

/ Knut

Hi Oldtimer

this is a Cementing Machine. Primarily for putting contact adhesive on Soles to be bonded to the Uppers. The Tank on rt holds the Glue and it is fed evenly to the Rollers on the left which then spread it evenly on the Sole as it is fed through.

The other Machine is a Sole Skiver less the Blade.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

[oldtimer]

Hi Oldtimer

this is a Cementing Machine. Primarily for putting contact adhesive on Soles to be bonded to the Uppers. The Tank on rt holds the Glue and it is fed evenly to the Rollers on the left which then spread it evenly on the Sole as it is fed through.

The other Machine is a Sole Skiver less the Blade.

Kindest Regards.

Jim Saddler.

Thank´s for the info, Jim.

Never heard of a glueing machine, I had hoped that it was a motorized splitter. At least I can sleep now, knowing what it is.

Will have a look at the sewing machines wednesday.

Thank´s / Knut

[Laurie]

wow, killer pictures ya'll!! I took time off work (construction work) a few years ago to work in an old established family (3rd generation) boot/shoe repair shop in Baton Rouge, so I could learn their machines. It was a great learning experience, they have giagantic old inner & outter sole stiching machines. Wish I had the picts of those huge monsters!

[19th century bootmaker]

wow, killer pictures ya'll!! I took time off work (construction work) a few years ago to work in an old established family (3rd generation) boot/shoe repair shop in Baton Rouge, so I could learn their machines. It was a great learning experience, they have giagantic old inner & outter sole stiching machines. Wish I had the picts of those huge monsters!

Are they still around? I would love to meet them. I have a working museum of old machines. Do you have contact information?

[wassomeoneelse]

Are they still around? I would love to meet them. I have a working museum of old machines. Do you have contact information?

Hey! I live in Baton Rouge. If it is the shop off of Sherwood Forest and Coursey Blvd., I would be glad to go over there and talk to them about taking some pictures. Just let me know if that is it.

Take care,

Bryan

[bobkiss]

Here's three old machines I use regularly.

The first is a leather cutting/skiving machine. It says "AMERICAN" and "ST. LOUIS" on it, but other than that, I don't know much about this machine. I don't use it a lot for cutting leather because it leaves a cut with ridges on it, but I love using it for skiving. One crank of the handle, and the leather is perfectly skived to a feather edge.

The next picture is my Singer 29K60 sewing machine. It was built in Scotland in 1946. I use it for quick sewing of simple lightweight leather projects. I don't use it as often as I might, because I enjoy handsewing.

The third picture is what used to be a hand-cranked grinding machine. I bought it at a second-hand shop for $15.00. I took the grinding stone off and replaced it with 6 inch diameter leather discs which I cut out from scraps of saddle skirting and rivetted together. I applied jeweler's rouge to the disc and it works perfectly for honing knives and other cutters.

Hi,

I have a Singer similar to yours, mine is a 29k4, I also have a hand grinder and I'm going to steal your idea to replace the stone with a leather wheel, what a great idea! I also have the skiving/cutting machine, mine is made by Landis, I have never used it, I don't have a blade for it, do you know where I could by one?

[MikeCahill]

attached are some pictures of a frobana outsole stitcher, I'm trying to get this working, but I'm having problems setting it up, a copy of the instructions handbook would be useful, can anyone help? it's not in very good condition, is it worth the effort?

[amuckart]

Hi Mike,

attached are some pictures of a frobana outsole stitcher, I'm trying to get this working, but I'm having problems setting it up, a copy of the instructions handbook would be useful, can anyone help? it's not in very good condition, is it worth the effort?

This might be something for a new topic altogether.

That's entirely recognisable as what turned into the Frobana Gritzner stitcher. Interesting to see what's the same and what's changed. It could probably be treadle driven with a big enough flywheel.

I've got a manual for the Gritzner, just haven't had time to get it online sorry. I'll try and do that this weekend.

It doesn't look all that bad really. My Gritzner looked terrible when I got my hands on it. I went after it with a spray bottle of undiluted industrial citrus cleaner and a waterblaster and now it looks great. Still drops the occasional stitch though :/

If that were mine I'd remove it from the wood and thoroughly clean it then scrub the lightly rusted bits with oil and grey scotch brite. The nickel plating is probably compromised where rust has gotten under it but that shouldn't affect the mechanics of the machine.

When it comes to old stitchers the up side of this machine is that you can still get needles for it. The down side is that they cost about 8-euro each but when they work they work very nicely.

[MikeCahill]

It didn't look like this when I got it, I took it down to a local garage, soaked it in de-greaser, then pressure washed it top and bottom followed by a tin of WD40, and oiling the oilpoints, which were helpfully painted red, the nickel is blown in places, and little things like the tiny screws that hold the plate protecting the needle have been lost, and it has been roughly riveted in place with what looks like copper wire! I've got needles, paid £5 each for them, It just needs a bit of TLC and setting up, it keeps snapping the thread, but that might be me threading it wrong. Would love a copy of the handbook. The old leatherwork machine section is the first place I come to when I enter the site, thats why its here, I did put a question in the sewing machine section, but I miss titled the thread so got no answers

Cheers mike

Hi Mike,

This might be something for a new topic altogether.

That's entirely recognisable as what turned into the Frobana Gritzner stitcher. Interesting to see what's the same and what's changed. It could probably be treadle driven with a big enough flywheel.

I've got a manual for the Gritzner, just haven't had time to get it online sorry. I'll try and do that this weekend.

It doesn't look all that bad really. My Gritzner looked terrible when I got my hands on it. I went after it with a spray bottle of undiluted industrial citrus cleaner and a waterblaster and now it looks great. Still drops the occasional stitch though :/

If that were mine I'd remove it from the wood and thoroughly clean it then scrub the lightly rusted bits with oil and grey scotch brite. The nickel plating is probably compromised where rust has gotten under it but that shouldn't affect the mechanics of the machine.

When it comes to old stitchers the up side of this machine is that you can still get needles for it. The down side is that they cost about 8-euro each but when they work they work very nicely.

It didn't look like this when I got it, I took it down to a local garage, soaked it in de-greaser, then pressure washed it top and bottom followed by a tin of WD40, and oiling the oilpoints, which were helpfully painted red, the nickel is blown in places, and little things like the tiny screws that hold the plate protecting the needle have been lost, and it has been roughly riveted in place with what looks like copper wire! I've got needles, paid £5 each for them, It just needs a bit of TLC and setting up, it keeps snapping the thread, but that might be me threading it wrong. Would love a copy of the handbook. The old leatherwork machine section is the first place I come to when I enter the site, thats why its here, I did put a question in the sewing machine section, but I miss titled the thread so got no answers

Cheers mike

Hi Mike,

This might be something for a new topic altogether.

That's entirely recognisable as what turned into the Frobana Gritzner stitcher. Interesting to see what's the same and what's changed. It could probably be treadle driven with a big enough flywheel.

I've got a manual for the Gritzner, just haven't had time to get it online sorry. I'll try and do that this weekend.

It doesn't look all that bad really. My Gritzner looked terrible when I got my hands on it. I went after it with a spray bottle of undiluted industrial citrus cleaner and a waterblaster and now it looks great. Still drops the occasional stitch though :/

If that were mine I'd remove it from the wood and thoroughly clean it then scrub the lightly rusted bits with oil and grey scotch brite. The nickel plating is probably compromised where rust has gotten under it but that shouldn't affect the mechanics of the machine.

When it comes to old stitchers the up side of this machine is that you can still get needles for it. The down side is that they cost about 8-euro each but when they work they work very nicely.

[amuckart]

It didn't look like this when I got it, I took it down to a local garage, soaked it in de-greaser, then pressure washed it top and bottom followed by a tin of WD40, and oiling the oilpoints, which were helpfully painted red, the nickel is blown in places, and little things like the tiny screws that hold the plate protecting the needle have been lost, and it has been roughly riveted in place with what looks like copper wire! I've got needles, paid £5 each for them, It just needs a bit of TLC and setting up, it keeps snapping the thread, but that might be me threading it wrong. Would love a copy of the handbook. The old leatherwork machine section is the first place I come to when I enter the site, thats why its here, I did put a question in the sewing machine section, but I miss titled the thread so got no answers

Cheers mike

It looks like it'll work Ok in the condition it's in. If you wanted to clean off the rust you're looking at something like evaporust - most other things will blow all the rest of the nickel off. As well as the red marked oiling points there are several covered oil holes that go down into axles etc, they have little flip-top covers on them. I'd go after the cogs with a decent oil as well. What I did with my Gritzner was liberally oiled every moving surface I could see with CRC Syntex, but I don't know if you can get that in the UK.

I think you do have it threaded wrong. Take the thread out of the wax pot, through the channel in the post, around the tension wheel, up through the eye in the wire arm and straight into the takeup lever instead of going through the bits on the side like you have it. The holes in those are probably spannering points rather than thread path. If it keeps breaking thread after that, take a little tension off the thread spool - that's the main point the upper tension gets set in these machines. You should also either use prewaxed thread or have some oil in the wax pot, I put pure neatsfoot oil in mine for now until I can get some sellari's liquid wax. The other thing to do is polish the heck out of every point in the thread path.

Hope that helps.

[MikeCahill]

It looks like it'll work Ok in the condition it's in. If you wanted to clean off the rust you're looking at something like evaporust - most other things will blow all the rest of the nickel off. As well as the red marked oiling points there are several covered oil holes that go down into axles etc, they have little flip-top covers on them. I'd go after the cogs with a decent oil as well. What I did with my Gritzner was liberally oiled every moving surface I could see with CRC Syntex, but I don't know if you can get that in the UK.

I think you do have it threaded wrong. Take the thread out of the wax pot, through the channel in the post, around the tension wheel, up through the eye in the wire arm and straight into the takeup lever instead of going through the bits on the side like you have it. The holes in those are probably spannering points rather than thread path. If it keeps breaking thread after that, take a little tension off the thread spool - that's the main point the upper tension gets set in these machines. You should also either use prewaxed thread or have some oil in the wax pot, I put pure neatsfoot oil in mine for now until I can get some sellari's liquid wax. The other thing to do is polish the heck out of every point in the thread path.

Hope that helps.

the thread appears to be being cut by the blade that cuts a slit for the lower thread to sit in and also moves the job along one stitch, I would really like a copy of the handbook,

cheers

Mike

[amuckart]

Hi Mike,

The thread shouldn't intersect with the channel knife at all. Did you re-thread it?

I've emailed you a URL for the instruction manual.

[MikeCahill]

Hi Mike,

The thread shouldn't intersect with the channel knife at all. Did you re-thread it?

I've emailed you a URL for the instruction manual.

Must have upset someone, posted 3 posts yesterday, all disappeared! what I said was yes I did re-thread, and I used the top thread to pull up the bottom thread, but both threads are getting chewed up by the channel knife. I then posted you to say that I'd been onto your blog and that if you are still experimenting with pegging, (blog from 2009) an Austrian company called "Blau Ring" still makes pegs and that I thought that beech was a bit hard for pegs, perhaps you could try birch, willow or popler(aspen) which are stringier, and less likely to snap, I then posted you to say that I'd put up some pictures of a saddlers sewing machine that I have that I recon will sew about an inch of leather it works clamped to a bench either vertically, or horizontally I took the photos today, but can't find the cable to connect it to the computer, so that will have to wait. also didn't get the URL for the handbook, can you send it again please

cheers

Mike

[aleks1967]

Hi, looking for Frobana Gritzner user manual. Anybody can help ?

Thank you

aleksey1967 at ukr.net

Must have upset someone, posted 3 posts yesterday, all disappeared! what I said was yes I did re-thread, and I used the top thread to pull up the bottom thread, but both threads are getting chewed up by the channel knife. I then posted you to say that I'd been onto your blog and that if you are still experimenting with pegging, (blog from 2009) an Austrian company called "Blau Ring" still makes pegs and that I thought that beech was a bit hard for pegs, perhaps you could try birch, willow or popler(aspen) which are stringier, and less likely to snap, I then posted you to say that I'd put up some pictures of a saddlers sewing machine that I have that I recon will sew about an inch of leather it works clamped to a bench either vertically, or horizontally I took the photos today, but can't find the cable to connect it to the computer, so that will have to wait. also didn't get the URL for the handbook, can you send it again please

cheers

Mike

[amuckart]

Hi, looking for Frobana Gritzner user manual. Anybody can help ?

Emailed.

One of these days I'll get it online properly.

[MikeCahill]

not found a copy yet, would appreciate a copy of yours

Cheers

Mike

Emailed.

One of these days I'll get it online properly.

[aleks1967]

Dear Muckart

Thank you ! .

This manual is exactly for my devise! I have no photos, but my looks like exactly like this

Now, I am looking for the needles. Actually currently have needle NO 5 , but thinking to use NR 3. Do not know if this possible and do not know where to find spare needles. Have found in internet some time ago link for manufacturer, but unfortunately can not found it again. Would be nice if somebody can help

Thank you again!

BR Aleks

[Singermania]

HI, you didn't say what brand that shoe oursoler was, however if it was maroon it'd be the same as my frobana, its just missing the top cover. Regards Steve

[LeatherworkingNovice]

Hi Folks,

Slightly OT here but need a bit of info..

I have the same Landis/American 3 in 1 that TrooperChuck posted way back when on the first page of this thread. Mine is assembled with the feeding disk on top and forward of the cutting disk and gives the same "ridged" edge TC describes. How difficult is it to remove the feeding disk and cutting disk and swap their positions so that the feed disk is on the bottom (where I don't worry about the ridges)? Would I want to just remove the disks or would it be better to pull and swap the whole disk/shaft assembly?

Also I was going through some PDFs I came across several years ago and one of them is what I'd describe as an old sales brochure for the Landis 5 in 1. Judging from the design and font used I'd guess it dates to sometime between the 50s and the 70s. Where would I want to post that up for others to view & hopefully benefit from?

Thanks!

[TOM123]

Hi Folks,

Slightly OT here but need a bit of info..

I have the same Landis/American 3 in 1 that TrooperChuck posted way back when on the first page of this thread. Mine is assembled with the feeding disk on top and forward of the cutting disk and gives the same "ridged" edge TC describes. How difficult is it to remove the feeding disk and cutting disk and swap their positions so that the feed disk is on the bottom (where I don't worry about the ridges)? Would I want to just remove the disks or would it be better to pull and swap the whole disk/shaft assembly?

Also I was going through some PDFs I came across several years ago and one of them is what I'd describe as an old sales brochure for the Landis 5 in 1. Judging from the design and font used I'd guess it dates to sometime between the 50s and the 70s. Where would I want to post that up for others to view & hopefully benefit from?

Thanks!

The cutting wheels are just screwed on but I don't remember if the threads are right or left handed I haven't had mine apart for a long time, you should have a flat spot on two sides to put a wrench on, hold the handle with one hand and turn the wrench with the other.

[fleaman]

Hi Guys..im new here to leatherworking machines...can anone tell me what this machine is or what it was used for.?.. looks like sewing machine but extra heavy duty and heavy.. theres no makers name..just some numbers one prob serial number..