Thoughts on Ferdco Pro 440R?

[RunningRoan]

I am new to leatherworking and looking to purchase my first sewing machine for making tack and strap goods, no saddles. I'm interested in Ferdco's Pro 440R. Has anyone used one? What do you think of them? Thanks for the input!

[bruce johnson]

I had one, didn't like it. The throat plate eats the backside of lined stuff going around corners. At that time the 440 was the only powered machine under about $4000. Ron ended up and traded the head out for an Adler 205, and that was a good solid machine. If you are looking to do flat goods, I like the 1245 a ton. We have had it about a year and a half, and run a lot under it. I really don't think there is one machine to do everything, so a flat bed and cylinder arm machine both have their place in my shop. The 1245 is not intimidating for my wife, and I am using it a bunch more too. Good machine.

[Art]

I wouldn't really recommend it. It is a cylinder arm which is good, but it is drop or bottom or feed dog feed only (they're all the same thing). If you want something for medium and heavy leather you will be happier with needle feed and basically little or no feed dog action. If you don't need the big 16" throat of a big stitcher, they now make 9" models that are a bit cheaper and are pretty much Juki 441 clones with smaller throats. Ferdco number is 2020 and Artisan is the 3000, the Artisan is a bit (big bit) less expensive and the machines are similar and are Walking foot, needle feed and drop feed (dogs). If you can live with the flat bed, the Ferdco 1245 (which is a clone of a Pfaff) and the Artisan 618-1SC will handle anything 24oz and even more with adjustments. Cylinder arm machines will accommodate a plethora of needle plate and presser foot combinations for making the job easier while flat beds generally have one needle plate and some feet although usually used for sewing welting etc.

Whatever you get, get it with a DC Servo motor which will make sewing and controlling the machine much easier than the standard clutch variety. A speed reducer (which also multiplies torque which is important) is kind of a necessity for a big stitcher doing custom work.

If you can help it, don't skimp on a sewing machine, you will have it forever, and buying the wrong one will just mean you will have to buy the right one too. Go to a major show before you buy and get the dog and pony show on all the brands and then make them teach you how to run it, and then play with it for an hour or two. It is really the only way.

Art

I am new to leatherworking and looking to purchase my first sewing machine for making tack and strap goods, no saddles. I'm interested in Ferdco's Pro 440R. Has anyone used one? What do you think of them? Thanks for the input!

[RunningRoan]

I was concerned about the 440R not being a walking foot machine. Is this why is wads up the lining? The price is definitely attractive but I want to get a machine that's going to do what I want!

I'm also interested in doing some wallets and smaller items. Would a larger walking foot machine work for that as well as the tack?

[bruce johnson]

The problem I had with the 440 was not that it wadded up the lining. The throat plate has teeth that slant back, they allow the piece to slide back as the needle feeds it, but the teeth prevent it from sliding back forward. On straight runs it works fine. On curves when you turn the piece back towards you, those teeth grab. The effect is much like the tire shredding don't enter here deals at the parking garages. You can loosen presser foot tension, lightly file off the teeth some, but then there are feeding issues. A walking foot machine will work for wallets. The big thing to watch for - needle size, thread size, and foot lift capacity. Some machines can do smaller sizes, but not larger. Some large machines can only do larger sizes. I think my 1245 will do up to 207, and I rountinely run that through it. I usually run 138 for most of what it does. The 2000 will go down to 207 I think for the small end of things. I usually run 346 or 277 in it. Something to watch for - Ferdco puts on a leather trade show in Pendleton in November. It would be a good chance to see several of their machines set up and try a few. It probably is the closest show to you. Artisan has a good line of machines and also set up at a lot of shows.

[Art]

Hi Heather and Bruce,

The 440 I thought I saw did not have needle feed, just drop feed, they called it a "Baby Bull", but it was nowhere near the machine the 900 Bull was. In my opinion, the 900-B on that big Consew 754 frame was the best machine Ferdinand ever made, except the Juki 2000 Pro could be it's equal. Maybe it was an older model of 400 I worked with? The shuttles in the big machines can handle smaller thread down as low as 69 or 92, however if you use the requisite needle, the shuttle hook/needle gap gets too large and you get skipping and even birdsnesting so, you have to shim the shuttle to get the hook closer to the needle. Of course every time you do that you have to adjust tension and sew off; this is why it is better to have a machine to run 46-138 or maybe 207 and another to run 207-415; I guess you have to figure out on which side of the 207 line your interests cluster.

Art

The problem I had with the 440 was not that it wadded up the lining. The throat plate has teeth that slant back, they allow the piece to slide back as the needle feeds it, but the teeth prevent it from sliding back forward. On straight runs it works fine. On curves when you turn the piece back towards you, those teeth grab. The effect is much like the tire shredding don't enter here deals at the parking garages. You can loosen presser foot tension, lightly file off the teeth some, but then there are feeding issues. A walking foot machine will work for wallets. The big thing to watch for - needle size, thread size, and foot lift capacity. Some machines can do smaller sizes, but not larger. Some large machines can only do larger sizes. I think my 1245 will do up to 207, and I rountinely run that through it. I usually run 138 for most of what it does. The 2000 will go down to 207 I think for the small end of things. I usually run 346 or 277 in it. Something to watch for - Ferdco puts on a leather trade show in Pendleton in November. It would be a good chance to see several of their machines set up and try a few. It probably is the closest show to you. Artisan has a good line of machines and also set up at a lot of shows.

[RunningRoan]

Thanks for all the input everyone! I have not bought a machine yet, still shopping.

I sure like the price of the Ferdco 440R, not sure that I like the bottom feed instead of walking foot. I do plan on doing smaller projects as well, but the bulk of my sewing will be strap goods. I have seen some finished items that have marks from feed dogs on the bottom side. That personally doesn't bug me, but I imagine some customers may feel it detracts from the overall neatness of the item. Hmmm....lots of things to think about.

So what would be a comparable medium duty machine with a walking foot?

[Art]

Hi Heather,

If you are going to do a lot of harnesswork, then a jump foot needle feed machine would be best. That would be a 900 Bull from Ferdinand at about $2400 used, or an ASE No.9 at from $1200 to about $2200, a Classic for about $5500 new, or a needle and awl machine at various prices either new used or rebuilt. All are great machines. For a more down to earth machine, the Artisan 3000 has been giving folks good service and doing whatever they ask for about 5 years and if there were any problems, we would have heard about it by now. A couple of companies make something similar to the 3000, but the price is just not that much different.

Art

Thanks for all the input everyone! I have not bought a machine yet, still shopping.

I sure like the price of the Ferdco 440R, not sure that I like the bottom feed instead of walking foot. I do plan on doing smaller projects as well, but the bulk of my sewing will be strap goods. I have seen some finished items that have marks from feed dogs on the bottom side. That personally doesn't bug me, but I imagine some customers may feel it detracts from the overall neatness of the item. Hmmm....lots of things to think about.

So what would be a comparable medium duty machine with a walking foot?

[tat2]

Consew 227r series is good for Harness repair, stitching. You want a model that has easy to find parts for. But buy used the prices are silly for new machines. If your new to the trade I would not buy a meduim duty. You need a model to grow on. Med to heavy is the way to go. with at least a 1/2 to 3/4 hegiht on the walking foot.

If your just doing harness work. Buy an older pearson or landis treadle machine. Its what they were designed for.

Singer has a great line of industrial machines.

http://www.builderssquare.com/xp_922973-Fe..._ferd440rr.aspx

http://www.allbrands.com/products/abp04857-0277.html

hope this helps

[busted]

I am new to leatherworking and looking to purchase my first sewing machine for making tack and strap goods, no saddles. I'm interested in Ferdco's Pro 440R. Has anyone used one? What do you think of them? Thanks for the input!

I had one too. It was the biggest piece of crap I have ever had the misfortune to own. I sent it to Weavers Auction in June and sold it. It will sew canvas not leather.

[DavidMillsSaddlery]

glad I saw this thread, saw one locally, but decided not to go with it... simply because of the dog feed...