Thread And Knots For Hand Sewing

[CCPhotog]

I've yet to discover the perfect type of thread for hand sewing. The Al Stohlman book recommends cotton or linen, waxed. I bought some waxed linen thread from Tandy, and the problem is, it breaks all the time. About every 8 to 10 stitches, in fact, it breaks right at the eye of the needle. It gets very, very frustrating having to stop every 5 minutes and rethread my needle, especially since the thread gets a few inches shorter each time.

I looked around and found "synthetic sinew," which appears to be waxed nylon. The good thing is, it doesn't break. The bad thing : It's so slippery that knots won't hold. With the waxed line, I used the method of piercing through the thread with the needle, then bringing the end of the thread around to the eye and pulling it through. This makes a larks head in the middle of the thread around the needle. That holds the waxed linen in place, but the synthetic sinew just slips out. I've tried almost every knot I can think of, from a few half hitches, overhand, square knot, etc, and any knot that's strong enough to hold is so big it doesn't go through the holes.

Sewing is turning into the part of any project that I dread, and I find myself procrastinating. I love how the finished product looks, but these problems are making sewing an exercise in frustration. Any tips? What thread do you guys prefer, and what knots do you use to hold it in the needle?

[mlapaglia]

I use waxed linen No problem with needle breakage. Dont use sinew for normal stitching. It really isnt a good thread for most things.

1: Which needle are you using the large eye needle from Tandy?

2: How are you making your needle holes in the leather? with an awl or a punch?

I use 3-5 cord linen with a diameter of 0.52-0.83 mm's with a harness needle of #0. I know people that use other thread and #3-4 harness needles. I cant remember the last time I broke a thread at the needle while sewing. I have a machine but I still do some holsters by hand. I enjoy it.

Try this as a sample. I use this all the time. It works well for me. Make sure you are not pulling the string tight by the needle. Wrap the thread around your finger when you pull so it doesn't pull at the needle. If its breaking at the needle your most likely pulling the thread too tight with the needle or pulling it through the hole by the needle and not the thread once the needle gets clear of the leather.

FYI when you make the larks head on the thread at the needle pull the not so its up against the needle

Try a different thread. Get back to us on the answers to the two questions. I know we can help you.

Here is an example of pulling the threads not the needles to take up the slack and tighten it up.

(Ignore the knot at top its for starting with two threads instead of one long one.)

Michael

Edited April 20, 2012 by mlapaglia

[CCPhotog]

I am using a dremel to drill holes, with a 3/64" drill bit. I own an awl, and I've tried using it, but after stabbing myself deeply in the hand and fingers a few times, I decided that modern technology is a good thing.

The needle I'm using is a Tandy Harness needle.

It's not pulling the thread tight, with the linen, that breaks it. It's pulling the thread through the hole. It breaks before the thread ever gets to the other side, right at the eye. I'm going to take some pictures to explain what's going wrong, perhaps that will help.

I use waxed linen No problem with needle breakage. Dont use sinew for normal stitching. It really isnt a good thread for most things.

1: Which needle are you using the large eye needle from Tandy?

2: How are you making your needle holes in the leather? with an awl or a punch?

I use 3-5 cord linen with a diameter of 0.52-0.83 mm's with a harness needle of #0. I know people that use other thread and #3-4 harness needles. I cant remember the last time I broke a thread at the needle while sewing. I have a machine but I still do some holsters by hand. I enjoy it.

Try this as a sample. I use this all the time. It works well for me. Make sure you are not pulling the string tight by the needle. Wrap the thread around your finger when you pull so it doesn't pull at the needle. If its breaking at the needle your most likely pulling the thread too tight with the needle or pulling it through the hole by the needle and not the thread once the needle gets clear of the leather.

FYI when you make the larks head on the thread at the needle pull the not so its up against the needle

Try a different thread. Get back to us on the answers to the two questions. I know we can help you.

Here is an example of pulling the threads not the needles to take up the slack and tighten it up.

(Ignore the knot at top its for starting with two threads instead of one long one.)

Michael

[mlapaglia]

I am using a dremel to drill holes, with a 3/64" drill bit. I own an awl, and I've tried using it, but after stabbing myself deeply in the hand and fingers a few times, I decided that modern technology is a good thing.

The needle I'm using is a Tandy Harness needle.

It's not pulling the thread tight, with the linen, that breaks it. It's pulling the thread through the hole. It breaks before the thread ever gets to the other side, right at the eye. I'm going to take some pictures to explain what's going wrong, perhaps that will help.

It may be that you have some thread that is old and starting to rot. That or the hole is too small. I have never broken a thread at that point. Pictures will help.

If you want to try the awl again, I think it makes a better looking stitch, Get a wine or champagne cork and hold the flat side on the back of the leather. Then push the awl through the leather into the cork. It gives you a good backing for thick leather and you don't stab yourself. I learned that trick here and it really helps.

Michael

Edited April 20, 2012 by mlapaglia

[CCPhotog]

I have tried three or four different spools of thread, from two different retailers.

What knot do you use to hold the thread in the needle?

It may be that you have some thread that is old and starting to rot. That or the hole is too small. I have never broken a thread at that point. Pictures will help.

Michael

[mlapaglia]

I have tried three or four different spools of thread, from two different retailers.

What knot do you use to hold the thread in the needle?

I use the same knot as you use I think. I just make sure its against the edge of the needle and not any space between the needle and the knot.

One question. How many layers and what weight is the leather.

Edited April 20, 2012 by mlapaglia

[ChuckBurrows]

Try Barbour's unwaxed linen sinew in 5 cord from campbell-bosworth an then wax it yourself - not initally cheap but much cheaper in the long run..

Edited April 20, 2012 by ChuckBurrows

[TexasJack]

I've found that Chuck's advice is usually worth it's weight in gold. I bought a spool of Barbour's linen and found that it was a lot easier to work with than the junk I was using before.

[CCPhotog]

The Barbour's only comes in natural. Do you guys dye it for other colors? Will Fiebings dye it?

I've found that Chuck's advice is usually worth it's weight in gold. I bought a spool of Barbour's linen and found that it was a lot easier to work with than the junk I was using before.

[ChuckBurrows]

The Barbour's only comes in natural. Do you guys dye it for other colors? Will Fiebings dye it?

Yes and Yes - dye before waxing - cut off a length dip in the dye, let hang to dry, rub it down with a cloth to remove excess dye, wax or wax/pitch, then burnish with a piece of brown paper bag - I put a loop in one end, place the loop over a hook, the rub it hard enough to get it warm....

[CCPhotog]

Try Barbour's unwaxed linen sinew in 5 cord from campbell-bosworth an then wax it yourself - not initally cheap but much cheaper in the long run..

Got a spool of it on the way, hopefully it'll arrive early next week.

[ChuckBurrows]

one last note - when using linen NO knots - backstitch instead - a little trick - with 5 cord I use #1 or #2 Osborne egg eye harness needles depednent on stitch length - #1 is a bit harder to thread but I use it for 8 SPI for 5 or 6 SPI the #2 is a bit bigger and is a bit easier to htread and use. When backstitchin i is sometimes tough to pull the needle through without pliers which I don't like to use except when necessary - so anyway I made up an "awl" with a 00 size harness needle and use that to open up the hole a bit for back stitching - this wya it just stretches it a bit and won't cut your thread like a regular awl will.

You can see the needle awl here it's the antler handled one just to the right of the pony - the otehr two are my hand awl (red handle) and the one on the left is for using with a mallet:

[Sylvia]

It's interesting to me that there are so many ways of preparing the needle and thread.

When I thread my needles... I pull the thead through the eye so I have about 2 inches or so through. Then I push the point of the needle through the long end and slide the thread up the needle to the eye... then pull the short end, forcing a not just beyond the eye of the needle... the short end is now longer so I poke through the thread of that end and draw it past the eye of the needle and the first knot.... and down the length of the thread. This secures the end to the thread. No twisting nonsense required and you don't have a bunch of bulky thread to try to get through the hole.

As for it breaking at the needle, it sounds to me that you've got a burr which is cutting the thread. Get a magnefying glass out and inspect that needle.

[CCPhotog]

This sounds interesting, but I can't quite visualize it. Could you post a picture or two?

It's interesting to me that there are so many ways of preparing the needle and thread.

When I thread my needles... I pull the thead through the eye so I have about 2 inches or so through. Then I push the point of the needle through the long end and slide the thread up the needle to the eye... then pull the short end, forcing a not just beyond the eye of the needle... the short end is now longer so I poke through the thread of that end and draw it past the eye of the needle and the first knot.... and down the length of the thread. This secures the end to the thread. No twisting nonsense required and you don't have a bunch of bulky thread to try to get through the hole.

As for it breaking at the needle, it sounds to me that you've got a burr which is cutting the thread. Get a magnefying glass out and inspect that needle.

[Sylvia]

This sounds interesting, but I can't quite visualize it. Could you post a picture or two?

yep, you got it... didn't realize how dirty my hands where until I took these pictures. LOL Been working in the garden and stuff.

I'm sure you are all good up to this point... make sure your tail is pulled snug.

The end result

There you go... no bulky twisty things to come undone...

The tail does sometimes ride up and down if you handle your thread. But it's much nicer then trying to twist and wax... in my opinion.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Sylvia

[CCPhotog]

Sylvia, I'll give that method a try once my spool of Barbours arrives. Who knows, maybe it'll arrive this week! I also ordered two beveling stamps from Barry King, those should be here tomorrow. I'm curious to see if it's worth the difference in price, but I'm already impressed with his service. He got the order out and a shipping number emailed right away.

One last question : Since you're prepping your thread ahead of time, any good rule of thumb on how long to make your pieces? Do you have a standard length you work with? I've noticed that if the thread is too long, it gets annoying to deal with.

[Sylvia]

Sylvia, I'll give that method a try once my spool of Barbours arrives. Who knows, maybe it'll arrive this week! I also ordered two beveling stamps from Barry King, those should be here tomorrow. I'm curious to see if it's worth the difference in price, but I'm already impressed with his service. He got the order out and a shipping number emailed right away.

One last question : Since you're prepping your thread ahead of time, any good rule of thumb on how long to make your pieces? Do you have a standard length you work with? I've noticed that if the thread is too long, it gets annoying to deal with.

It really depends on what you are sewing, what stitch you are doing and the stitches per inch. I try to make sure I don't waste the thread... but at the same time I have to be able to successfully work the needles... so I try to keep them no longer than my arms length. If you have any of the books on stitching or have taken the time to watch the videos on Tandy... there is a rule of thumb of something like 1.5 times the perimeter of the piece to 2.5 times... but don't quote me on that! lol

[ramrod]

sylvia....that is so cool! i thought that i was the only one to pierce the thread twice when threading the needles....you do too!

i've never pierced the tail, tho. i'll start doing that from now on. i'm finding that my thread will work it's way out of the eye after a while.

cchpotog....i try to keep my threads about an arms length. any longer than that and you'll end up with gnarly thread after a while - it tends to fray and dgrade. plus, it tends to get dirty as you stitch.

and when you think about it, you waste less when you use a longer section to stitch. i find that when i stitch smaller projects and use maybe a foot or two at a time, i waste a lot just simply threading the needles - maybe 6 to 8 inches or so are thrown away.

[ChuckBurrows]

IMO anyone interested in handsewing leather should get a copy of Al Stohlman's book "The Art of Handsewing Leather". It shows you much more than justt he basics including how us old timers made up (and still do at times) different cord threads starting with a single cord.. Even after 51 years of sewing leather by hand I leaf through it.

[SandSquid]

What thread do you guys prefer

A wise leather-worker turned me on to these pre-waxed, pre-tapered poly threads: White 60" HandsewingThreads - $12 per gross. The tapered ends make a world of difference, and unlike Tandy thread I have not had a single break.

Being pre-cut to 60" and pre-tapered I can't see myself ever making my own threads, unless I'm doing a 100% historically accurate piece which requires me top start by picking the cotton boles and ends with a spinning wheel...

i've never pierced the tail, tho. i'll start doing that from now on. i'm finding that my thread will work it's way out of the eye after a while.

It total rocks, especially using the tapered threads I pimped above.

Though, I should note that my mentor has be piercing the tail twice instead of only once, it really gets a nice firm lock.

Peirce, loop needle around once, pierce again:

Sure, threads get dirty as seen above, but being ahem, "frugal"... I keep any piece longer than a foot to re-use as illustrated on page 17 of Stohlman's hand sewing book.

Since I'm leather-working purely for it's therapeutic values for my frayed sanity, and living off military pay, I can do that.

Edited May 15, 2012 by SandSquid