Toro 4000 Update And New Questions

[ouchmyfinger]

long story short, the mechanic swung by today and got my machine running.

he said that i did not have a feed dog on this machine and i should order one and the plate for it. he doesn't know anything about leatherwork but is wonders with a sewing machine.

should i get them?

also now that i have a machine where do i learn how to use it and what all the different feet are for? any good websites

and finally, i have heard people saying that they use a waxed or lubricated thread and also that they have pots on the machine that does this? what is that and is that something else i should be looking into?

thanks

[Wizcrafts]

long story short, the mechanic swung by today and got my machine running.

he said that i did not have a feed dog on this machine and i should order one and the plate for it. Should i get them?

It might help feed certain materials better, especially when backtacking. You would also need to buy a slotted throat plate that matches the width and travel of the feed dog and a screw to secure it inside the end of the arm (unless one is already present.

also now that i have a machine where do i learn how to use it and what all the different feet are for? any good websites

YouTube, but there are not very many feet available for the 441 clones. Really, all there are are the blanket feet and harness feet (left, right and double toe).

and finally, i have heard people saying that they use a waxed or lubricated thread and also that they have pots on the machine that does this? what is that and is that something else i should be looking into?

thanks

I prefer pre-lubricated thread, over liquid silicon in a pot. When the machine shakes, the silicon sloshes out of the container and drips onto my foot. Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines sells Cowboy branded lubricated thread. Weaver also sells a lubricated thread, if you have a State tax number and registered business name.

In lieu of lubricated thread I have an add-on wax pot bolted on top of my machine. I keep it filled about 1/3 up from the bottom with liquid silicon and run otherwise dry top thread through it. The lube makes it easier to pull the knots up into the leather and for the needle to go through dense leather without grabbing inside it.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[ouchmyfinger]

It might help feed certain materials better, especially when backtacking. You would also need to buy a slotted throat plate that matches the width and travel of the feed dog and a screw to secure it inside the end of the arm (unless one is already present.

YouTube, but there are not very many feet available for the 441 clones. Really, all there are are the blanket feet and harness feet (left, right and double toe).

I prefer pre-lubricated thread, over liquid silicon in a pot. When the machine shakes, the silicon sloshes out of the container and drips onto my foot. Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines sells Cowboy branded lubricated thread. Weaver also sells a lubricated thread, if you have a State tax number and registered business name.

In lieu of lubricated thread I have an add-on wax pot bolted on top of my machine. I keep it filled about 1/3 up from the bottom with liquid silicon and run otherwise dry top thread through it. The lube makes it easier to pull the knots up into the leather and for the needle to go through dense leather without grabbing inside it.

thanks for all your help, I'm about to get working now so i was about to do my first order for thread, i plan on doing mostly belts and guitar straps so i was wondering what size thread should i be using on these. also how many stitches per inch for what thickness of material, is there somewhere i can find this out

thanks again, i don't know what i would do without you lol

[Art]

You really can't say ouchmyfinger till you run one thru a stitcher.

Short answer 138 bonded nylon or poly. Eddington for a little looser wound look and Coats for tight wound. American and Efrid is also good if it is still made here and not in China.

The real answer here is whatever is aesthetically pleasing to you and your customer. I know guys that have never had anything but a patcher that runs 69 Black. And he ain't gonna change, and does everything with it. I have never seen anything of his come apart either. For a Western look, try larger threads like 277 or 346, where the threadwork is part of the package and look of the item.

Every piece of leatherwork is in some ways artwork, and the choice of thread has to fit the look and function of the item. Dress belts, 69 to match the item, gunbelts 346 white/straw/sand/deer to look like it can do the job and then do it again.

Colors if important are a contributing factor. In sizes over 138, Black, Brown, White, and White/OffWhite/Sand are fairly easy to find, Red occasionally. More colors in 138 and 92, and 69/46/33 have about anything you might want. Poly generally has more color availability than Nylon.

Don't spend a lot on thread all at once, just get what you will use to start and go from there. Many of us have thread gardens we will never use. Some companies like the Thread Exchange will have smaller spools so you can keep the inventory down, used to be you could only find 1lb spools, now a 1/4 lb is not uncommon.

Art

thanks for all your help, I'm about to get working now so i was about to do my first order for thread, i plan on doing mostly belts and guitar straps so i was wondering what size thread should i be using on these. also how many stitches per inch for what thickness of material, is there somewhere i can find this out

thanks again, i don't know what i would do without you lol

[Wizcrafts]

I use #138 thread on guitar straps, sewn at about 5 stitches per inch, with a #23 needle.

For belts, it depends on the style and thickness of the belt. Dress belts, as Art mentioned, are usually sewn with thin thread, like #69. The thread is only there to keep the glued thin layers from separating over time. The stitching is not usually noticed by the wearer or other people. Dress belts are often sewn at 8 to 10 stitches per inch, with a #16 needle and #69 thread.

Move up to more serious 8 ounce veg-tan belts that are lined with 4 ounces of suede, and you need at least #138 thread (w/ #22 or #23 needle) to properly secure that package. 6 to 7 stitches per inch is about normal for these belts.

Ramp it up a notch, Bam! If you build double leather belts, between 3/16 to 5/16 inch thick, the thread I use is #277, sewn with a #25 needle, at 4.5 to 5 stitches per inch.

If you decide to enter the Stratosphere and make gun belts and weight belts that approach 3/8 inch thickness in areas, you may prefer to use #346 thread, sewn with a #26 or #27 needle, with a stitch length of 4 to the inch.

All of the above examples are based on my own experience and opinion. Whenever possible, use an S point leather needle. Since your questions pertain to a Toro 441 clone, you are limited in the sizes of needle available with a leather point. Most of our dealers only stock S point, system 794 needles in sizes 23 and up. If you need to sew with thinner thread and smaller needles, they will probably be regular round point needles.