Stirrup Position

[cjowett]

I used to be of the opinion that the shape of the fender would determine where the stirrup would sit relative to the seat pocket. If the stirrup leather came off the top of the fender on the back portion then the stirrup would be forward. If the stirrup leather came off the top more toward the front then the stirrup would be more under the rider. However now I'm realizing that the fender is just window dressing and that the stirrup leather makes a big loop from stirrup to the slot in the bars regardless of what shape fender you tack to it. So how then do you set a forward position stirrup for a reiner or cutter or anyone else who wants to sit a hard stop? I find my production roping saddles are suitable for standing up and roping and lead to very poor horsemanship.

[Aggiebraider]

While I am no expert and still learning to build saddles, (still need to make my first one lol), I think I can give you some ideas. First, If you normally use 3.5" stirrup leathers, you can make them smaller, say down to 3" , and this should give you more fender movement. Also, think about making your fenders out of a little thinner leather so they have a little more flex and arent so heavy. I think it also depends on how you cut your stirrup slots. If you are getting your trees with the tin strainer already put in, you might have to talk to them to see if they can change them.

Another thing to think about, is that you dont want your fenders to always sit that far forward, similar to the old style like some seen in the Al Stohlman books, because that will lead to a more of a chair rider position. This can lead to more horsemanship problems than having fenders without much swing. I know some cowboys that ride in saddles made by the shop I work in every day, and say they have plenty of fender swing even making them just like our ropers. Just a little horsemanship info as well, when you stop a reiner, you take your legs off them or just widen them, not put your feet forward. I know all the pictures of reiners make it seem like you put your feet forward, but you really dont. At least I was taught not to.

Another thing is a skirt rigged saddle can have more fender movement, because there isnt a rigging in front of the top to get in the way and stop it.

If any info is incorrect, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can post and set me straight.

Hope that helps,

CW

[horsewreck]

I think this is a great topic, let's see where it leads. I think aggiebraider ment to say "if you use 3inch leathers you might consider 2 1/2 inch instead" which I'm sure you know are most often used on cutters,racers, and performance saddles. When you make full leathers the stirrup leather does hang in a straight line without regard to fender shape or top attachment point. When you make 1/2 leathers the fender becomes part of the loop so to speak, and the concept of forward cut fenders become more useful because you can not only offset the point of attachment at the fender top but also the angle of attachment, something you can't do with full leathers.

Placement of the stirrup leather groove in trees has so much to do with how the stirrup sits and moves and is the starting point of what you end up with. If you use production trees you might not have much input, but if you custom order trees you can discuss the ultimate use of the saddle with the tree maker and get the groove set accordingly. Nothing makes for a longer ride than spending all it in a saddle that was designed for a quick team roping run... Jeff

[jwwright]

I think all the responses have been correct. For my input, I'll say that where the stirrup leathers hang is a function of the stirrup slot placement in the bars, primarily. 2 1/2" leathers will allow for a little more flexibility, and I use them in all saddles that I build, unless the customer requests otherwise. 1/2 leather, ranch cutter style fenders / leathers allow for maximum flexibility, and do allow you to put the point of the stirrup position slightly ahead of the true stirrup leather line. I use that style of set up on many saddles as well. JW

[Aggiebraider]

Thanks for the correction Jeff, not sure what I was thinking when I typed that lol. I didnt even think about 1/2 leathers vs full leathers......still have a bunch to learn lol.

[bruce johnson]

Most have been hit already but I think there are a few other factors to throw in also. Mosty stirrup slots are cut a little over 3". If you use 2-1/2" leathers and push your risers or groundwork forward, you can keep that narrower leather in the front part of the slot. There is a limit though - too close to the back of the fork and it gets to be the limiting factor. The solution some have made is leave the slot where it is, order a longer seat and a higher rise in the ground seat or push on the horn to help keep you back there. Not picking on any event, just saying it has been done.

Rigging plays a part., Some methods for making a dee ring rigging will limit forward movement. A dropped round ring or flat plate can be more forgiving depending on how they are patterned. Skirt riggings have the potential for the most forward swing.

Fork pattern. Some forks that come pretty far down the bar can limit the forward swing some. One with leg cuts may ease that a bit.

Fender pattern, especially the front of the top. Some fenders that wide at the top are going to either hit the back corner of the fork or bind against the pinching from the screw below the fork. If the pattern is one that has a fair amount of fender in front of where the stirrup leather attaches at the top, that will be a big deal. This is more of a factor they higher they are pulled up. I had a trophy saddle that had "California" spelled out across the width in big letters and three or four lines of lettering. They made the fenders wide and long enough to accomodate the lettering and that son of a gun rode straight down at best. I sold it and the buyer wanted shorter fenders. I made them with my normal pattern and rode it. It rode way better.

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

I think all the responses have been correct. For my input, I'll say that where the stirrup leathers hang is a function of the stirrup slot placement in the bars, primarily. 2 1/2" leathers will allow for a little more flexibility, and I use them in all saddles that I build, unless the customer requests otherwise. 1/2 leather, ranch cutter style fenders / leathers allow for maximum flexibility, and do allow you to put the point of the stirrup position slightly ahead of the true stirrup leather line. I use that style of set up on many saddles as well. JW

For me everything Jim says is the same way I see it. I make my saddles the same way. I only vary from my norm when I am making something for someone that is a real horsemen and knows what it is that he wants. Even then, I feel the need let them know what they are asking for iis not the normal.

Bob

[cjowett]

All great feedback. Thanks folks.