ShadowDancer Report post Posted June 5, 2012 Hi Wiz and other forum readers. Like so many others, I too have enthusiastically read many of the posts here, and thank all of you for taking the time to help light the way. I didn't find any answers to my exact question, and since it seems that others might share the question, I decided to post it here. I'm looking for a great leather sewing machine for under $500. Here is a list of features, gleaned from the many posts I've read here, that are on my wish list. I'd like to get as close to these parameters as possible, without modifications, and realize that I just may never get all of these items within my price range. I also realize the first question I'll always be asked is: "What are you planning to sew with it?" Let's just assume that I have in mind sewing a wide variety of types and thicknesses of leathers, but nothing so thick as saddles and holsters (say max 1/4"). So versatility is good, reliability is important, and ease of use is paramount. Speed is not a factor for me. I'd rather go really slowly and have maximum control (control freak - just sayin'). I have done most of my stitching by hand to date and a machine at its slowest speed will still be light years faster than anything I have done before. But I'm also a tool freak and love a good quality machine, and so I don't want to be disappointed, but as a primarily craft (non professional) worker, I just can't justify the expense. And I really don't care about a zillion bells and whistles. A few simple stitches, excellent quality and control, and I'll be really happy. WISH LIST 10" Bed 3/8" Capacity Walking Foot Compound Feed Servo Motor I think that's it. That's not so much to ask is it? Is it? Thanks again everyone for your great information, and thanks in advance for your replies. -ShadowDancer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 6, 2012 (edited) Hi Wiz and other forum readers. Like so many others, I too have enthusiastically read many of the posts here, and thank all of you for taking the time to help light the way. I didn't find any answers to my exact question, and since it seems that others might share the question, I decided to post it here. I'm looking for a great leather sewing machine for under $500. Here is a list of features, gleaned from the many posts I've read here, that are on my wish list. I'd like to get as close to these parameters as possible, without modifications, and realize that I just may never get all of these items within my price range. I also realize the first question I'll always be asked is: "What are you planning to sew with it?" Let's just assume that I have in mind sewing a wide variety of types and thicknesses of leathers, but nothing so thick as saddles and holsters (say max 1/4"). So versatility is good, reliability is important, and ease of use is paramount. Speed is not a factor for me. I'd rather go really slowly and have maximum control (control freak - just sayin'). I have done most of my stitching by hand to date and a machine at its slowest speed will still be light years faster than anything I have done before. But I'm also a tool freak and love a good quality machine, and so I don't want to be disappointed, but as a primarily craft (non professional) worker, I just can't justify the expense. And I really don't care about a zillion bells and whistles. A few simple stitches, excellent quality and control, and I'll be really happy. WISH LIST 10" Bed 3/8" Capacity Walking Foot Compound Feed Servo Motor I think that's it. That's not so much to ask is it? Is it? Thanks again everyone for your great information, and thanks in advance for your replies. -ShadowDancer Here is a machine that matches your specifications. It costs about $1149 with a servo motor, plus shipping. There is absolutely nothing new available in the price range you specified. If you can't afford to pay over $500 for a walking foot machine, you will have to find one used in the Marketplace section of the forums, or on Craigslist. Edited June 6, 2012 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KAYAK45 Report post Posted June 7, 2012 Great, Great request list. All here want the same thing! Try to find a 111w155, compound walking foot/clutch motor for SAY...$400 AND BUILD YOU OWN MACHINE.! Otherwise, wish for a SPACE SHIP TO MARS. I want one! Kevin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anne Bonnys Locker Report post Posted June 7, 2012 There are bargains out there but you need to have patience. Put your $500 in an envelope in a safe place and every week throw in another $20 to $50. In six months time you will have enough money to buy a machine which can do things beyond what you currently require. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ken Nelson Report post Posted June 8, 2012 There are bargains out there but you need to have patience. Put your $500 in an envelope in a safe place and every week throw in another $20 to $50. In six months time you will have enough money to buy a machine which can do things beyond what you currently require. That is good advice!!! Ken Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D Fingers Report post Posted June 8, 2012 1338943979[/url]' post='251362']Here is a machine that matches your specifications. It costs about $1149 with a servo motor, plus shipping. There is absolutely nothing new available in the price range you specified. If you can't afford to pay over $500 for a walking foot machine, you will have to find one used in the Marketplace section of the forums, or on Craigslist. Wiz Would this machine be adequate for holsters and belts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Techsew Ron Report post Posted June 8, 2012 Wiz Would this machine be adequate for holsters and belts? Belts, yes. Holsters - depends on your sewing thickness. Ron Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D Fingers Report post Posted June 9, 2012 1339175046[/url]' post='251750']Belts, yes. Holsters - depends on your sewing thickness. Ron Typically two layers 8/9 oz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 9, 2012 (edited) Typically two layers 8/9 oz Piece of cake then, for the CB2500 or GA5-1. These machines don't stress out until you sew about 7/16 inch of leather. If the leather is very hard, the sewable thickness would be reduced. Note, these machines are available with and without reverse. Read the specs carefully to know what you would be getting for a given price, then compare prices. The size of the needle and thread also determines how much thickness of leather can be sewn. It is easier to sew with a #25 leather point needle and #277 pre-lubricated nylon thread, than with a #26 needle and #346 thread. But, if you are going to be sewing 3/8 inch or under, all you'll be using is #277 thread, tops. At 1/4 inch, even #207 will do. This drops the required needle to a #23 or #24. The correlation between the thread/needle/thickness/hardness is related to the strength of the pressure spring that holds down the presser foot. With hard leather, you may need to exert so much foot pressure (to keep the leather from lifting with the ascending needle), that is becomes difficult to feed the package without causing deep tooth penetration on the bottom. A roller foot conversion will reduce the feeding issues, but may leave its own track on top. Heck, any presser foot leaves some trails when a lot of pressure is exerted on top. You could submit a glued together sample of your leather and state the desired thread size and have the dealers sew your leather on their machines. When you get it back, assess the appearance of the top and bottom. These issues are greatly alleviated by a triple feed 441 clone. They have smooth feed dog and two presser feet, along with a moving needle. The pressure springs are even stronger on these machines, which can sew over 3/4 inch, with #346 or larger thread. Edited June 9, 2012 by Wizcrafts Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D Fingers Report post Posted June 10, 2012 1339264403[/url]' post='251870']Piece of cake then, for the CB2500 or GA5-1. These machines don't stress out until you sew about 7/16 inch of leather. If the leather is very hard, the sewable thickness would be reduced. Note, these machines are available with and without reverse. Read the specs carefully to know what you would be getting for a given price, then compare prices. The size of the needle and thread also determines how much thickness of leather can be sewn. It is easier to sew with a #25 leather point needle and #277 pre-lubricated nylon thread, than with a #26 needle and #346 thread. But, if you are going to be sewing 3/8 inch or under, all you'll be using is #277 thread, tops. At 1/4 inch, even #207 will do. This drops the required needle to a #23 or #24. The correlation between the thread/needle/thickness/hardness is related to the strength of the pressure spring that holds down the presser foot. With hard leather, you may need to exert so much foot pressure (to keep the leather from lifting with the ascending needle), that is becomes difficult to feed the package without causing deep tooth penetration on the bottom. A roller foot conversion will reduce the feeding issues, but may leave its own track on top. Heck, any presser foot leaves some trails when a lot of pressure is exerted on top. You could submit a glued together sample of your leather and state the desired thread size and have the dealers sew your leather on their machines. When you get it back, assess the appearance of the top and bottom. These issues are greatly alleviated by a triple feed 441 clone. They have smooth feed dog and two presser feet, along with a moving needle. The pressure springs are even stronger on these machines, which can sew over 3/4 inch, with #346 or larger thread. WizMy question was regarding the Chandler 406rb and if it would be able to consistently sew double layers of 8/9. This machine is limited to #207 thread?Thanks D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anne Bonnys Locker Report post Posted June 10, 2012 A CB250/GA5/45K25 will handle any thread thickness you want up to 415 (maybe even 500 at a stretch) Yes, the 441 clone is the ducks guts but it comes at a price. When people come to me looking for a machine I start by looking at what they really need to do and their sewing experience. If they are just starting out and really don't know how much work they will eventually do then often I will suggest the GA5 route as an inexpensive way into the game. While most saddlers I know have a Pearson 6 or a 441 clone they all have a 45k25 in the workshop that gets used on a regular basis it isn't as if it will be wasted. On the other hand, if it has been been set up properly from day one, it will always have a good resale value. A flat bed has a lot of limitations but a cylinder bed can always be fitted with a flat bed attachment - even if you make it out of plywood. Just my 2 cents worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGGUNDOCTOR Report post Posted June 10, 2012 Watch Craigslist in your surrounding areas. I have picked up 2 Adler patchers that way. One guy also had a beautiful 441 clone-for IIRC $1,200. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 10, 2012 WizMy question was regarding the Chandler 406rb and if it would be able to consistently sew double layers of 8/9. This machine is limited to #207 thread?Thanks D Here's your answer, as sewn on my National equivalent of the Chandler 406. The leather is 9-10 ounce bridle leather. The needle is a #24 leather point and the thread is #207, top and bobbin. The last one shows the back, which looks much like the top. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D Fingers Report post Posted June 10, 2012 1339354117[/url]' post='251996']Here's your answer, as sewn on my National equivalent of the Chandler 406. The leather is 9-10 ounce bridle leather. The needle is a #24 leather point and the thread is #207, top and bobbin. The last one shows the back, which looks much like the top. Wiz I appreciate the pictures. That answered all my questions including what does #207 thread look like. Thanks D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted June 10, 2012 What is the difference between the 206 & 406? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 11, 2012 What is the difference between the 206 & 406? Two hundred Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted June 11, 2012 Two hundred I meant two hundred dollars. The Consew 206 has a push button stitch length lock over the knob, while the 406 doesn't. It just has detentes behind the knob, like my National. You'd have to ask a dealer for more specific details about any differences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChimeraKennels Report post Posted June 12, 2012 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stelmackr Report post Posted June 13, 2012 What is the difference between the 206 & 406? I can't resist. The difference between the 206 & the 406 is 200 ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
