Cast Iron Vs Cast Aluminum

[Retired LE]

Greetings and salutations to all from a newby hailing from the Pacific Northwest.

I am a novice leather worker who is considering the purchase of the Tippmann Boss leather sewing machine to satisfy my cravings to produce leather holsters and knife sheaths. My efforts will be strictly of a hobby variety versus a production shop. Production sounds too much like work so I will shy away from that.

I understand they used to be made out of cast iron - but are now manufactured out of cast aluminum.

Seems to me the cast iron unit would be better (more stable due to the weight, and stronger). Are they the same dimensionally speaking or have there been upgrades/changes since going to cast aluminum?

Will parts interchange between the two? If not, which ones will and which won't?

Anyway, I located a lightly used cast iron unit for $900 in Oregon which is not too far away from me. From what I have read here and elsewhere, the price is just about right.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks for reading,

Mike

[Dwight]

One of the folks who works for Tippmann is named Ben, . . . call em up, . . . get him on the phone, . . . he'll help you.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Retired LE]

One of the folks who works for Tippmann is named Ben, . . . call em up, . . . get him on the phone, . . . he'll help you.

May God bless,

Dwight

Thanks for the tip. I may have forgot to mention that I am impatient as hell and given this is a weekend and they are probably not answering their phones I thought I would tap into the knowledge base here before committing to the purchase of the unit in Oregon.

Mike

[shovelhead]

aluminum boss--having owned a acast iron one years ago I can tell you that as far as stability he weight is meaningless because to get them to cycle correctly they must be absolutely rigidly mounted because the force reqired to complete the stitch cycle is considerable and relies on a solid mount.

regards shovelhead

[oldtimer]

I have had two aluminum Boss sewing machines. Both broke down. Then I found a used Iron Boss and it has worked without problems. Would this info be of any help ?

/ Knut

[Retired LE]

I have had two aluminum Boss sewing machines. Both broke down. Then I found a used Iron Boss and it has worked without problems. Would this info be of any help ?

/ Knut

I appreciate the input.

If I might ask, what exactly happened to the aluminum units to cause them to break? Was it a specific part or.....

[mlapaglia]

I have one aluminum Boss and it works great. had a problem out of the box but Tippman fixed it and its great. They did make improvements to the aluminum model and as long as you do not hang off the handle and do standard maintenance you will have no more or less than the original version.

[oldtimer]

I appreciate the input.

If I might ask, what exactly happened to the aluminum units to cause them to break? Was it a specific part or.....

On the first one, two needle feet broke, the lever that pushes on the uptake lever rotated on its shaft , you name it .....

On the second one the gear rack broke, plus a needle foot. This machine sounded like it was full of gravel right out of the shipping box. Quality control??

The operating parts inside an alum. Boss are made of presscast zink, a non durable (but cheap) solution, as opposed to the cast iron Boss parts which are made of steel. You can figure out yourself the difference between cast zink and steel parts. On the iron Boss you can do a simple modification that makes it even better, by adding a spring to the uptake lever that keeps the top thread in tension during the whole sewing cycle.

My advice, go for a cast iron Boss if you plan to buy one, or even better, save up some money and buy a used motorized leather sewing machine, Juki 441 clone or Adler 205

my 2 cents/ Knut

[Retired LE]

On the first one, two needle feet broke, the lever that pushes on the uptake lever rotated on its shaft , you name it .....

On the second one the gear rack broke, plus a needle foot. This machine sounded like it was full of gravel right out of the shipping box. Quality control??

The operating parts inside an alum. Boss are made of presscast zink, a non durable (but cheap) solution, as opposed to the cast iron Boss parts which are made of steel. You can figure out yourself the difference between cast zink and steel parts. On the iron Boss you can do a simple modification that makes it even better, by adding a spring to the uptake lever that keeps the top thread in tension during the whole sewing cycle.

My advice, go for a cast iron Boss if you plan to buy one, or even better, save up some money and buy a used motorized leather sewing machine, Juki 441 clone or Adler 205

my 2 cents/ Knut

Thanks for taking the time to post a detailed report on your experience - which although it may not be typical, it does speak of products which are 'modernized' to the detriment of their quality and/or reliability. My gut was telling me to stick with the cast iron units so that's what I am going to go with.

Thanks to all who took the time to respond.

Mike

Edited June 11, 2012 by Retired LE

[Retired LE]

Update:

I received the machine from the owner in Oregon. It arrived in the original wooden packing crate along with some accessories. Now to spend some time checking it over and familiarizing myself with it's function/operation.

Luckily, I was able to download an owners manual from the Tippmann site which will help a lot - but more useful was the web site's instructional video which showed thread tension setup and some other handy tips.

The only thing I noticed initially was how the stitching handle is attached to the shaft. It's only held on there by one 3/8 threaded allen head bolt. Doesn't seem heavy duty enough to handle the torque when operating that handle... I went ahead and installed a longer bolt which threads into the gear shaft just a bit further. More to come as I delve into this further.

[mlapaglia]

Update:

I received the machine from the owner in Oregon. It arrived in the original wooden packing crate along with some accessories. Now to spend some time checking it over and familiarizing myself with it's function/operation.

Luckily, I was able to download an owners manual from the Tippmann site which will help a lot - but more useful was the web site's instructional video which showed thread tension setup and some other handy tips.

The only thing I noticed initially was how the stitching handle is attached to the shaft. It's only held on there by one 3/8 threaded allen head bolt. Doesn't seem heavy duty enough to handle the torque when operating that handle... I went ahead and installed a longer bolt which threads into the gear shaft just a bit further. More to come as I delve into this further.

One of our members, I believe it was Lobo, but I could be wrong, posted recommended maintenance on the Boss and one of the steps was to change that bolt once a month. He used it constantly. One of his months is probably a years worth or work.

Be careful making changes. Sometimes the piece is made to break so something more important does not. This is true of the rack gear that is just below the main gear on the handle. Dont change that to something stronger. In case of a really bad jam its designed to break to save the rest of the machine.

I found the post. The main post is below. You can read the whole thead here.

Nice looking work. The Tippman Boss is a decent little machine, especially for low-volume production or occasional use, but it can be finicky and frustrating at times. Some tips that might help are:

1. The Boss requires constant attention to timing and thread tensioning. Checking these and fine-tuning on scrap leather similar to what you will be using on each project before starting each project will save you some disappointments.

2. The cast aluminum operating handle attaches to the upper helical drive gear with a cap screw. That screw absorbs most of the stress at the top and bottom of each stroke, and can become fatigued over time and break, usually leaving the threaded portion of the screw embedded in the zinc drive gear. Tightness of that screw can be an issue, and I recommend checking it before each use to avoid a loose screw that adds additional stress in use. Avoid overtightening that screw. I also recommend changing out that screw about once every 30 days (about 125 to 150 uses in my shop, yours may vary) to avoid breakage due to metal fatigue. Keeping a supply of Schedule 8 cap screws, 1/4 X 20 X 1.5" on hand is cheap enough to do, and each one that saves you two hours of work to disassemble the top-end of the machine, remove the drive gear, and remove the broken screw, reassemble, re-time, etc, will be worth far more than it costs.

3. The helical drive gear is a cast zinc part. The screw hole to which the operating handle attaches is very close to one edge, and the part can break at that point due to repeated stress (especially when operated with the cap screw loose, and they do tend to loosen with use). Keeping a couple of spare drive gears on hand will allow you to make repairs right away rather than waiting for replacement parts from Tippman.

4. The drive rack (operated off the top helical drive gear to run the bottom shaft to the bobbin shuttle) is also made of cast zinc and can break due to repeated stress. Keeping at least one set (two pieces) on hand will allow immediate repairs rather than waiting for replacement parts. Changing these out takes only 15 to 30 minutes, but re-timing is then necessary as these parts control the finer timing control.

5. Keep the Tippman Industries phone number handy. A quick call will put you in touch with one of their tech people who will walk you through every maintenance and repair issue. Nice folks.

6. If you don't have the Tippman video you may want to order it from them, or watch it on their website. The advanced portion is very helpful in understanding machine operation, repair issues, timing, and thread tensioning issues, which you will be dealing with regularly.

I keep my Boss on hand primarily as a back-up for the Cobra Class 4 that I added to the shop in 2010. You will find it to be a pleasure to use much of the time (especially when compared to hand-stitching), but there will be regular issues with adjustment (timing, thread tensioning) and regular repairs will be necessary (and routine) events. The most significant weaknesses are in the cast zinc used in key operating parts and the otherwise totally unsupported attachment of the operating handle via steel cap screw to a cast zinc drive gear.

I hope this helps you.

Edited June 19, 2012 by mlapaglia

[Anne Bonnys Locker]

Put a 441 clone on a treadle. Great control, both hands free and a better machine all 'round.

Simple technology is the best.

[Retired LE]

Update:

Just got back from a trip so haven't had time to post an update.

Anyway, I received the machine as promised and it didn't take much to get it into operating condition; just a bit of grease on the working parts, some fine tuning on the thread tension, and a longer bolt to attach the stitching handle to the gear shaft.

I attached it to my work bench with a couple of clamps and off I went.

Included is my first holster – made for my AMT 45 Backup. Its not fancy, but it serves the purpose much better than the cloth inside-the-pant holster that I had.

Thanks again to all for taking the time to read and respond.

Happy leathering. (probly not a word but what the heck)

Mike

Edited June 22, 2012 by Retired LE

[mlapaglia]

Is that for left hand use?

Looks good. Nice work for a first.

[Retired LE]

Is that for left hand use?

Looks good. Nice work for a first.

Its for right hand wear with the gun canted forward. I may trim a bit more leather off of the front part of the thumb strap though to avoid that flap holster look.....