Sold This On Etsy

[Chief31794]

One thing to think about, Bibles are available from $5.99 to about $60.00 for the most expensive Bible in General. Anyone can charge any price they like, that doesn't set a price point. The Price Point is set by what people in the market place will pay for an item. $50.00 for a cover for an item that costs an average of $25.00 seems to indicate that the cover would be more important than what it's protecting. I don't think so, but that's just me. I could ask for $150.00 for the cover and I estimate I may sell one someday which would net me $125.00 in profit at some point in the future maybe. I have sold about 10 of these (not on ETSY, I just started there, but at craft fairs and people visiting the shop) which has netted me $250.00 in profit to date and I suspect I will sell many more, in fact I had another order today at the craft fair so that will make 11 and $275.00 profit. The way I look at it, I'm guaranteed $125 more profit than estimated sales at the higher price and perhaps $275.00 because I may never sell one at $150.00. If someone else makes one that is worth $150 or $300 then people will buy it and I haven't affected their sales. I don't think the people who are concerned about paying $50.00 would opt for paying $150-$300 for a Bible cover if they had never seen mine.

I love making leather items and would do so if no one ever bought them, this just gives me a way of getting rid of items I have or will make and provides me a string of income to buy more leather, dyes, finishes, and tools and make more leather which is what I love to do.

I'm happy and so are my customers.

Ken

[bluesman1951]

I have been making things for many years and selling in a tough wholesale market here in New Mexico. I can see your point ,then there is reality . The only thing that matters is at what point does the customer say yes I want that and reach for his wallet. Every thing else is just a load of wind . Here artists are famous for being less than great salesman simple as that .We all wish our work brought more ,in the end the public sets the prices by saying yes or no to our work . You can sell work any where in this country ,until you have sold in Santa Fe its hard to understand pricing . No one wishes to work for free ,in the end we all strive to do the best we can . I never count the time ,I average 3 times cost of material and shoot for 5 times most days . New Mexico pricing is like this : Lets say I sell a bag for 10.00 to a wholesaler ,he then adds 20 to 25 % the store owner buys and expects to triple his cost so now when the bag hits the shelf it must be believable to the retail customer at 40.00 . Jewellery is worse as the mark up is 7 times money thats how 50% off sales are possible . A Santa Fe store paying 30,000 a month plus all the extras simply cant stay in business just doubling the money . You are staying afloat at 7 times money ,brutal sounding but its a fact . Lots of empty stores to prove it ,people try and realise when the rents due they arent making it . There are more artists here than any where in the country the competition is fierce . Rember this is where a good piece of pottery will sell for 10,000 and its not a rare event just every day stuff . Think I am kidding Goggle "Robert Rivera Gourds Prices " and see for yourself . Bluesman1951

Mathematically yes you double your material cost. But you loose money in time.

Again you can sell your stuff for whatever you want. Its a feee market and a free country.

It is a shame you dont value your talent more. Thats all Im saying.

[bluesman1951]

I am in total agreement with your thinking .I dont do shows as it goes against my grain to pay someone for selling my work . In 25 years other than a flea market I have never payed show fees . Selling to wholesalers gets your profit and principle in one stroke . Most days I sell every thing I take every time I go . I could never survive selling items one at a time . You have a love of the work and a joy in doing it and in many ways thats a great reward . Helps also to have some money when in line at Smiths to buy groceries . I wish you continued success with your work . Bluesman1951

One thing to think about, Bibles are available from $5.99 to about $60.00 for the most expensive Bible in General. Anyone can charge any price they like, that doesn't set a price point. The Price Point is set by what people in the market place will pay for an item. $50.00 for a cover for an item that costs an average of $25.00 seems to indicate that the cover would be more important than what it's protecting. I don't think so, but that's just me. I could ask for $150.00 for the cover and I estimate I may sell one someday which would net me $125.00 in profit at some point in the future maybe. I have sold about 10 of these (not on ETSY, I just started there, but at craft fairs and people visiting the shop) which has netted me $250.00 in profit to date and I suspect I will sell many more, in fact I had another order today at the craft fair so that will make 11 and $275.00 profit. The way I look at it, I'm guaranteed $125 more profit than estimated sales at the higher price and perhaps $275.00 because I may never sell one at $150.00. If someone else makes one that is worth $150 or $300 then people will buy it and I haven't affected their sales. I don't think the people who are concerned about paying $50.00 would opt for paying $150-$300 for a Bible cover if they had never seen mine.

I love making leather items and would do so if no one ever bought them, this just gives me a way of getting rid of items I have or will make and provides me a string of income to buy more leather, dyes, finishes, and tools and make more leather which is what I love to do.

I'm happy and so are my customers.

Ken

[DoubleC]

Bill, I'm confused why you think we don't know how to sell on this forum since most of us do it all the time, and also why you think Santa Fe has all the artists? If you sell trees in a rain forest it might be as tough as you say but if you have your own flair you can sell anywhere. We have a ton of artists in the com munity I live in, and I'm sure that's true a lot of places. And I'm HONESTLY confused what that has to do with this thread. I'm not being m ean, I truly am confused. Cheryl

[bluesman1951]

I hardly know what to say , if the work is under-priced and worth more, then the proper thing to do is hold ones tounge and buy all you can sell in a different market until the supply goes away . Then find another talented person and buy their work . If its about money then thats what you do ,make money . As a observer and participant for many years I can say that more talent means more money and there are buyers at all levels . For some 50.00 sales are everything and for others 500.00 sales are common . Its not the same for all of us and thats evident by the threads here . I cant put years of wholesale experience into a few words here simply no way to explain that . Friend told me once : what ever denomination of money you think in is the denomination you will make . If you think tens and twenty s then that will be your lot ,if you think 500.00 is the normal course of things then that will be your lot as well . Final thought on money : When the outgoing exceeds the incoming then your up keep becomes your down fall . (Pastor Butch Paul) Wish there was a way to make it better for all . Bluesman1951

I guess I didn't really address anything but Chiefs work because I was hoping not to have to say what I feel about his pricing. He's trying to cover his costs and kill time. Well I make guitar straps and I'm not trying to do either. Are they exactly like his? Of course not. Does an average buyer understand the difference? Of course not. I love Chiefs work and he can do as he pleases, but I honestly think it would just be 'nicer' to sell his stuff somewhere since he doesn't care about the money, or maybe need it. 20-30-40 bucks an hour? I have to break down my product costs to the penny for the business plan I'm doing for the grant, and last we figured I'm making around 3 bucks an hour for a strap. I'm ok with that because I love doing it, but I at least want a playing field where I CAN make my 3 freakin bucks.

I got in this not because I'm gonna go out of business no matter what happens on this thread, but because I know how hard I work and Big you really don't seem to get it. People don't know jack about leather, but they know the difference between a Lamborghini and a Kia.

AND i SOLD THREE PIECES OF JEWELRY ON ETSY TODAY AND IT'S BEEN A WONDERFUL DAY FOR ME. I hope it is for all you too. Cheryl

[Bob Blea]

So I have been watching this discussion for the past few days with a lot on interest. I've been looking at Etsy and pricing of my own work, and been thinking about pricing and marketing. There have been some similar discussions on other forums. I certainly see the logic for pricing $20 per hour (or more) for your shop rate, or maybe charging so much an inch for a tooled belt. However, as much as we feel we should charge a certain rate for out skills we still are constrained by the market we sell into. From what I have seen on Etsy, it just isn't the kind of marketplace that will have customers willing to pay $200 or more for a Bible cover. My most common product are fairly small notebooks that hold 5x8 notepads. I'm certainly no master, but I think my carving is pretty good and I believe I make a good quality product, but if I was to use the $20 labor rate the cost, just in labor, would be over $200.00. That doesn't include overhead or a 2x markup for retail that really should be in the price. From the research I have done, Etsy is NOT the marketplace that would support a hand carved leather item at these sorts of prices regardless of the quality. Now, I am not good at sales or marketing, so if I was maybe I could write an item description that would get a buyer to purchase a $200 notebook on Etsy, but from what I can tell, Etsy just doesn't attract many of that sort of customer.

I think it is certainly possible to get those sort of prices for a well made item, and it's clear that very talented and experienced artists like Bob Park do just that. The difference here is that they have developed a different market, one that appreciates fine handcrafted (and usually customer made) leather items. Also, I think at that level, there is a certain name recognition or word of mouth that exists in their market that allows them to charge what they do. They have marketed themselves to a completely different market segment than the folks on Etsy, and they have sold themselves in that market successfully. That is what allows them to sell at the prices they do. And I think Biggundoctor has a valid point that what happens in the Etsy market doesn't have much effect of the market for a Bob Park or a Jim Jackson. And I really believe that what those masters do in their market segment doesn't effect Etsy one bit. What really ends up determining what we can charge for our work is how we sell ourselves into our particular market. To move our prices up, we usually have to move up to a better market.

Just my two cents worth.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

No offense taken Mike, it's all friendly here. You mentioned that you agreed with JAllen's thoughts. Ok so how about coffe mugs, hand thrown vs Wal-Mart China import. I have seen the Wal-Mart affect at craft fairs. People comparing $20 handmade to $3 Chinse imports. Those people you will probably never reach, becasue their PERCEIVED value of a coffe mug is $3. Doesn't matter that there are other potters at the same show selling mugs for more, or less. That person's perception is $3. The people who do want a custom mug will pay the price, as long as your product suits their need. That is the point I was trying to make. A guy who can afford a Lamborghini (pretty much a handmade car) more than likely would never buy a Kia because his perceived value of the cars is very different. For him, big bucks = status, and quality you won't get with the Kia. I saw a new Rolls at a casino recently, and the leather interior was absoutely beautiful, not a stitch out of place. It reeked of quality. Holland and Holland shotguns last I read started at $77,000, and are custom fit to you, you can't buy one off a rack since each one is custom made. There are people out there who will, and do pay for what they perceive is the best. You need to market yourself as the maker of the best leather bookmarks anywhere. The people who buy the less expensive ones probably wouldn't pay more for yours in the first place.

Before I came on this site I never would have guessed that custom pool cue cases could sell for thousands of dollars, but they do. Does every custom case sell that high? No. Do the ones that are priced far lower drag their values down? Not likely, because the top makers have a quality reputation, and the players that buy their cases have the perception that they are worth the price.

DoubleC, you mentioned people don't know Jack about leather (many don't know Jack about cars either). Sounds like you may have a marketing problem. If they don't know Jack , you need to introduce them to Jack so they know everything about him. That is the whole premiss of marketing, informing your customer base about your product, and why they should buy it. Don't expect your guitar straps to sell themselves, you need to sell the customer on them. In all actuallity you need to sell DoubleC more than the product, you need to build your brand so that when someone at the local music store inquires about custom straps your name comes up first. Your brand will be based on quality, performance, customer service, price, and most importantly what the customer perceives your value to be. There are also sites like Kickstarter out there that can help you get your business off the ground. I have friends who have gone that route.

I have a friend who makes jewelery, and she is killing it in sales. She has cultivated a following, works the internet, hits craft fairs, and now her customers are waiting for her newest pieces to come out. Have you seen how many people make jewelery nowadays? She has tons of competition,but she kills them in sales at every show. How? She knows her market very well. This community is not that closeknit, there are tons of leatherworkers out ther that are not on this site. I know a woman in Las Vegas who has built up a product line called Leather Couture by Jessica Galindo. By most accounts her items would be considered lower quality, or amaturish by many on this site, but she is doing quite well with sales, and she was interviewed recently about her brand, as well as being picked up by Zappos.com. Again, she works her butt off promoting her brand.

An intersting video relating to art sales is Con Artist, it is the story of Mark Kostabi. It may open your eyes to how a brand can be made , good or bad.

When someone is doing better than you in sales you need to look at what they are doing right compared to you. Price may not even be a factor. Is their quality better, do they ship faster, do they have better customer service, are they reaching a bigger audience, are they getting the same materials at a much lower cost, what is it that they are doing that you are not? Chief may want to try selling one at what it "should" cost, he may be surprised at how fast one may move at that price. Or, he will confirm his previous thoughts. All handmade leather products are not the same,even if one copies someone else. There are still differences in quality, customer service, etc..I am sure that the well informed can tell the difference between a Gucci, and a Chinese knockoff. I would prefer an original Winchester 97 at a higher price than the less expensive Chinese copy. They look the same, but the quality is vastly different. A pig is still a pig no matter how much lipstick you put on it.

Well , one thing we agree on is that Chief does nice work.

[bluesman1951]

As always beautiful work Ken. Cheryl

I have a small journey for you to take . In goggle type :Joe and LeJune Chaves art work images . They are from Santo Domingo Pueblo I have know them for many years . Perhaps you will enjoy the work ,they are at the top of their game and very famous as well . Many times their work is in Cow Boys and Indians magazine . They are premier artists very well known in the south west . Hope you enjoy ! Bill

[Bob Blea]

Biggundoctor, I agree with you completely. I know I need to improve my salesmanship and learn how to market. I'm getting the leather skills down, now I need to learn these things to sell my works. Being able to tell people about the quality and why it's important is probably my biggest hurdle to overcome right now.

Bob

[Pound]

whatever it is , this is nice work. Pricing is always tricky as Etsy is now an international site and serves international customers.