Patcher Will Not Advance The Material - Help?

[CustomDoug]

My Singer 29K60 has a new presser foot but the machine will not advance the leather material for it to make a row of stitches. basically the foot does not seem to raise very much at all in the course of operation. It does seem to moves forward and back. I tried adjusting the "presser foot pressure knob" to no avail. Any ideas what to look at first? Here are some pics in case it's something obvious:

Not very good pics here, but I can take more if it helps..

Edited July 16, 2012 by CustomDoug

[CustomDoug]

well looking at it again, this time without any material under the foot and with the lever down (I know this is kind of a no-no)... the foot does actually lift up a bit while in operation. Just does not appear to do so much with leather under it (two layers of medium thick upholstery leather) and perhaps does not raise high enough either way? .

[CustomDoug]

(The play by play ).... Somehow the machine started laying down a stitch. Don't ask me how to explain it, but all of a sudden it did. Maybe the thing was suffering from not being operated for ages before I got it. Anyway, there are two or three issues that I see now. First, the stitch length is a little inconsistent (some shorter than others) at times but not always. Secondly, the times when it IS stitching consistently, the widths are off from what they should be.. for instance the stitch regulator is set on 5 and I'm getting closer to 10 stitches. When I move the stitch regulator all the way down where it hits the presser foot (below the 5 mark) I only get 7 stitches at best (usually more like 8). Thirdly, occasionally when I'm sewing a sharp corner, the corner stitch (only) will come out and not complete that stitch. I notice this after I'm a couple stitches into going away from that corner. BTW, I've got it loaded with #92 thread top and bottom through a #18 needle... two layers of 3.5oz upholstery leather (I think). Comments/help/thanks ?

[Wizcrafts]

Doug;

Based on your description of the stitch length, the feed mechanism may be worn out. This involves the parts the are mounted into the bottom of the head, including the rotating ring.

The foot lift is adjustable. The maximum lift should be about 5/16 inch. If you have set the lifter to the high position, yet the foot cannot make it to 5/16 inch, back off the top tension disk nut. If it is too far down the lifter is obstructed. The hand lifter raises the foot and releases the tension disks. The same shaft is on the presser foot. Its maximum lift should be just under the position where spring tension is affected. If the top tension spring is screwed down too far, this action cannot happen properly.

If you need parts, you can buy them from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, who stock all available replacement parts for patchers. If you need a parts manual, request one to be emailed to you, like I did.

[JRodz]

Doug,

I'm not an expert but recently went through my patcher, read lots of posts, and the user manual about a million times. But in your picture, the butterfly nut on the backside looks like it is set to medium, if you loosen the nut and push it back all the way it will lift the foot higher. Although, on the medium setting you should have adequate clearance for two layers or 3 oz. and the manual says you should set to just over the thickness of what you are sewing and no more than is necessary.

As far as the stitch length, my machine had not been used in 15+ years so it was sewing poorly and the movement was not smooth or consistent and it missed stiches. I took it apart cleaned and polished all the pieces, put it back together, gave it a good lube, and now it sews beautifully. Before I worked on it I had ordered all the tension parts and the presser foot spring just in case but didn't need any of them. It was a win win because now I have a rebuild kit just in case.

My buddy Brian (sewing machine dealer and mechanic) says the majority of issues he services are either tension or minor adjustments. So I would play with tension as Wiz recommended, a couple weeks ago I was switching out from 46 to 69 thread and noticed that adjusting the tension affects the presser foot spring tension and vice versa. They share the plate that they push off of.

Good luck,

[Kevin]

If you look to the left of the butterfly that Jose is talking about, there is a screw that controls the "follower" that rides on the cam that causes the foot to lift while you sew. Loosen the screw and move that "follower" down and tighten the screw again. I would call this the primary adjustment and then the butterfly the fine tuning. I may not be calling things by their proper name, but it looks to me like the "follower" is barely touching the cam.

I have seen patchers with so much varnish on the parts that if you tighten the stitch length clamp too much, the three shafts bind together and the foot won't come all the way down on the work.

Good luck,

Kevin

[CustomDoug]

Sorry it took so long to get back to everyone on this. Here's a couple pictures I just took of the items Kevin's talking about. How should I go about adjusting the "follower" ? As in maybe raise the needle bar to it's highest point then move the follower down "X"mm ? I mean is there a standard?

BTW - there's a log narrow spring that runs down the back of the sewing head and there is a visible screw for adjustments at the bottom of it... that adjustment screw on my machine is pretty nackered up, so it's been adjusted a bit in the past. Could it's arrangement be the cause of any of my issues?

Edited July 17, 2012 by CustomDoug

[JRodz]

Doug,

You are looking at the wrong place. Take the needle to the highest point, loosen the butterfly, and you will see it will move one way or another (toward you for higher, away for lower), there is a low, medium, and high.On the metal surface right behind the butterfly you should see the lertter "L, M, and H" or maybe some hash lines. On these old machines the markings may be faint or covered with paint. In any case, you do not have to do anything with the items you put arrows too. PM me with your email and I will send you the manual, if you don't already have one. I would post it here but the file is too large.

regard,

[JRodz]

Here you go Doug.

[CustomDoug]

(Jrodz), I didn't answer you about the butterfly nut earlier and I should have.. I actually did know about this adjustment but I was under the impression ( I guess) that it was only for the height of the presser foot when the lever on the back was raised. This in my mind would raise the foot to remove thicker or thinner material and the Presser Foot Pressure knob would adjust the height of the foot movement. My mistake, not sure why I thought this, now that I think about it. The real mistake that I was making is that I was adjusting this butterfly nut with the lever arm raised... but it should have been down to get it right I suppose. This time I "eyeballed it" with my leather setting under the presser foot. Thanks for the tip, it opened my eyes to getting this detail right.

(Kevin), I loosened that nut (to the left of the L/M/H nut) and moved that "follower" lever down about maybe 1/4" and it seemed to improve my stitch consistency and also my stitch length is a little closer. I'm wandering if I should move it a little more and see if my stitch length improves more. I'm just paranoid about messing with what I have now since it's doing so much better. Here's a picture I took of the stitch I'm getting since making the adjustment you suggested (note that my corner stitches did not fail either):

@ Wizcrafts, I still intend to measure the lifter foot in the raised position as you suggested (I couldn't remember the measurement when I was messing with it). Also, you mentioned that the lifter on back raises and releases the tension disks but I just noticed that this does not happen on my machine. The plate (that the needle bar goes through, and that sits under the pressure nut and under the tension disks to raise them) does not lift up high enough to release the thread tension disks when the lifter lever on back is raised.

Edited July 17, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

You can adjust the raised position of the tension release plate via the nuts over and under the back side of the plate. These (5/8") nuts are on a threaded shaft that is behind the presser foot spring. With the lift lever and presser foot fully raised, loosen the top nut, then raise the one under the plate until the hollowed tension spring cup raises off the tension disk a smidgen. Then tighten the upper nut to secure this position.

Once properly adjusted, when you lift the presser foot lever all the way, the tension should be removed from the upper tension disks, allowing the thread to move freely.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Wizcrafts

[CustomDoug]

You can adjust the raised position of the tension release plate via the nuts over and under the back side of the plate. These (5/8") nuts are on a threaded shaft that is behind the presser foot spring. With the lift lever and presser foot fully raised, loosen the top nut, then raise the one under the plate until the hollowed tension spring cup raises off the tension disk a smidgen. Then tighten the upper nut to secure this position.

Once properly adjusted, when you lift the presser foot lever all the way, the tension should be removed from the upper tension disks, allowing the thread to move freely.

I'm glad you explained that because I figured those nuts would need to be adjusted but was afraid that doing so might throw something else out of whack. Thanks as always!

Now, just two things: The screw at the bottom of the long thin verticle spring (at the back of the head), what does it control? And... would moving the follower (the piece to the left of L/M/H adjustment) down a little more help get longer stitches?

[Wizcrafts]

I'm glad you explained that because I figured those nuts would need to be adjusted but was afraid that doing so might throw something else out of whack. Thanks as always!

Now, just two things: The screw at the bottom of the long thin verticle spring (at the back of the head), what does it control? And... would moving the follower (the piece to the left of L/M/H adjustment) down a little more help get longer stitches?

The screw at the bottom of the spring stops the spring from falling off the shaft and keeps it centered in the vertical slot in the lower section. It is both a stop screw and guide. If that screw is removed, the pressure spring will not exert any pressure on the presser foot.

Adjust the wing nut height brackets for maximum foot lift as the machine sews. Do not waste time trying to adjust it with the foot lifted and locked in the up position.

For the longest stitches, at any given thickness, lower the stitch regulator all the way down, with the foot lifted and locked in the up position. Since this is the highest vertical position the foot can achieve, setting the stitch length puck until it is just touching the fully raised foot ensures that you will get all the stitch length your machine's possibly worn parts can give.

If, after you set the foot lift to maximum during stitching, and the stitch length regulator is all the way down (to a raised foot), the best you can get is less than 6 stitches per inch, into 8 ounces of leather, consider the feed mechanism to be shot. Also, there must be spring pressure on the foot to cause it to pull the leather back to form stitches. Too little foot pressure causes a failure to feed.

A properly adjusted patcher, with a tight feed mechanism should give 5 stitches per inch into 8 ounces of leather. My machine has very tight clearances and gets 5 per inch into a quarter inch of leather.

This does not apply to the original 29-3 or 29-4 models, or the early 29k models with a leaf springs. I am referring to the 29Ks that have a coil spring for the foot pressure. The old leaf spring models have a different method of lifting the foot during sewing. However, the stitch length adjuster is the same on all models.

[CustomDoug]

The screw at the bottom of the spring.... It is both a stop screw and guide. If that screw is removed, the pressure spring will not exert any pressure on the presser foot.

~Beating a dead horse I know, but - the slot of my screw is a little wornout looking so the previous own obviously did some removing or loosening of that screw. So besides just removal is there adjustment that can be made to it? If so, would it only affect the amount of pressure exerted on the leather while the foot is down and the lifter is down?

Do not waste time trying to adjust it with the foot lifted and locked in the up position.

~Regarding the L/M/H butterfly, that was the mistake I was originally making.

Also, there must be spring pressure on the foot to cause it to pull the leather back to form stitches. Too little foot pressure causes a failure to feed.

A properly adjusted patcher, with a tight feed mechanism should give 5 stitches per inch into 8 ounces of leather.

~This is why I'm asking about that chewed up screw on the bottom of the long thin vertical spring that you're saying affects pressure on the presser foot. Could it be that the previous owner has adjusted the pressure so that it's not got enough pressure to form longer stitches (it's 5 stitch minimum)?

Edited July 17, 2012 by CustomDoug

[Wizcrafts]

~Beating a dead horse I know, but - the slot of my screw is a little wornout looking so the previous own obviously did some removing or loosening of that screw. So besides just removal is there adjustment that can be made to it? If so, would it only affect the amount of pressure exerted on the leather while the foot is down and the lifter is down?

~Regarding the L/M/H butterfly, that was the mistake I was originally making.

~This is why I'm asking about that chewed up screw on the bottom of the long thin vertical spring that you're saying affects pressure on the presser foot. Could it be that the previous owner has adjusted the pressure so that it's not got enough pressure to form longer stitches (it's 5 stitch minimum)?

Doug;

The presser foot pressure spring adjuster is on top of the spring shaft and the plate that eventually lifts the tension disk cup. There should be a round thumb adjuster on top that you can turn one way or the tudder

[CustomDoug]

Doug;

The presser foot pressure spring adjuster is on top of the spring shaft and the plate that eventually lifts the tension disk cup. There should be a round thumb adjuster on top that you can turn one way or the tudder

Yes I'm perfectly aware of this but that does not address my question about whether there's any adjustment for the small screw at the bottom of the long vertical spring. Nevermind, but thanks anyway.

[Wizcrafts]

Yes I'm perfectly aware of this but that does not address my question about whether there's any adjustment for the small screw at the bottom of the long vertical spring. Nevermind, but thanks anyway.

As far as I am aware, it is just a stop screw and guide for the pressure spring and has no adjustment value.