Poll: What Would Be Fair Pay For A Helper?

[RMB Custom Leather]

I finally have decided to have someone help me in the shop. It has taken a long time for me to finally decide to try and trust someone enough to help out for several reasons but I am not sure what I should pay them. I have to train them without any experience and I will be providing everything including all materials and shop equipment. They will have to drive about 5 miles to the shop and put together die cut gun holsters, knife sheaths, rifle slings, etc. items. Please provide me with your experiences with this if you have tried to pay someone to help out before or you currently have employees. I plan to pay on a production basis in a % form of the retail value of the finished product made. See poll to vote for a fair % to pay an inexperienced helper.

Edited August 5, 2012 by RMB Custom Leather

[TwinOaks]

Since I DON'T have a helper, I'm just speculating....but I would start with a base pay rate + a lesser percentage. This allows the helper to make a little bit of money while in the learning stage, but doesn't encourage them to get in a hurry and mess something up. If you are paying only a % of completed items, the helper may try to rush things and end up ruining something....or trying things he/she isn't ready for. Either way, mistakes cost YOU money. Once the helper has developed the needed skills, you can move them into a straight percentage which both keeps you from worrying about the work being done correctly, AND gives the helper an opportunity and incentive to make more.

I'm not sure I'd pick the 'retail price' as the basis for the commission, but I'd have to see your pricing structure and your P&L.

[TacticallySharp]

I have a helper that I pay $25 for 4 hours plus 10% of the sale price as the items sell. That gives her expense money plus incentive to keep her interest. She has worked with me for 2 months. Next month I am increasing the rate to 15%. She does leather work and is learning to forge knives.

[RMB Custom Leather]

Thanks everyone!

[Ken Nelson]

Thanks everyone!

I pay piece work when I do have help. I work out a percentage of the labor on repairs. I let them work on projects of their own when they have the time. It helps me out when I am swamped and gives these college boys a place to hang out and make a little beer money. Besides I enjoy having them around. Ken

[DoubleBarP]

I finally have decided to have someone help me in the shop. It has taken a long time for me to finally decide to try and trust someone enough to help out for several reasons but I am not sure what I should pay them. I have to train them without any experience and I will be providing everything including all materials and shop equipment. They will have to drive about 5 miles to the shop and put together die cut gun holsters, knife sheaths, rifle slings, etc. items. Please provide me with your experiences with this if you have tried to pay someone to help out before or you currently have employees. I plan to pay on a production basis in a % form of the retail value of the finished product made. See poll to vote for a fair % to pay an inexperienced helper.

Kudos for hiring an apprentice.. I did an apprenticeship many years ago. 2 years, 4000 hours. An apprenticehas to eat too… Fuel, vehicle insurance all cost money just like your light bill and materials… My point is unless you find someone who is retired and looking for something to do, or someone who really wants to learn the craft you may be disappointed… Do you have any kind of structured training program in mind? What performance standards are in place so you can measure progress or lack there of…

At least minimum wage plus incentives for quality work not necessarily quality is what I would be looking for.. As someone else said mistake swill cost you money, in terms of time and material.. This helper will also be performing work that bears your makers mark. They will be representing your shop. So finding the right person, that will meet your work ethic and product standards may be a difficult task…

Usually the apprentice gets to do the crap jobs and clean up after the craftsman. It is not necessarily the best job and one really has to want to learn the craft to stick with it..

Just asking some questions that come to mind based upon my own experience. I only wish it had been in a leather shop…

DBP

Edited August 6, 2012 by DoubleBarP

[bruce johnson]

Rob,

I'd sure run this by at least an accountant and maybe an attorney with a handle on labor laws to be above board. I looked into doing this 10 years ago when I was doing a lot of wholesale and awards stuff. Back then the local small business advisory board had some workshops and referrals for volunteer professional consultations for guys like me. Employment taxes and penalties haven't got any better since then and labor laws sure haven't got any simpler. Paying an employee as a hired employee, piece worker on site with regular hours, call them contract labor but using your equipment, or apprentice all have their own set of bookkeeping, legal, workman's comp and other insurance implications.

I ended up and paid my kid to edge and slick, and conned my then girlfriend into sewing with the Boss.

[RMB Custom Leather]

I have a retired friend that I trust in mind but I need to figure out what to pay them so that is why I did the poll to see what everyone else thought a fair % would be. Most of my items range from $30-$75 with some being more.

[KAYAK45]

The legal definition of an employee is someone you supply with tools, material and require them to work certain hours. Pretty simple. They get minimum wage at least.

Then you are wide open for "incentive" wages for good work. % or whatever.

Stay clear of your wage and hour laws or your worker can come back on you later.!!!

[Lobo]

Generally speaking, if the employer determines which work is to be done, when it will be done, where it will be done, and/or provides training, tools, or equipment for performance of the work, then the worker is an employee. As such, the employee is subject to minimum wage laws, social security & medicare, workers' compensation, unemployment insurance, and any other applicable laws in your location. Pay might be based upon hourly wage, piecework rates, commission (percentage), etc, but will still be subject to all laws, and the employer will be required to provide payroll accounting, tax withholding, and required reports (W2, etc).

Casual labor may be retained for various and irregular needs, subject to annual maximums with minimal accounting and reporting requirements. This is quite limited, and an easy way to run afoul of wage and withholding laws. Caution recommended.

Independent contractors may be retained to perform a broad range of services, however cannot generally be required to work at specific places, times, schedules, means or methods, and the employer does not provide training, tools, or equipment. Independent contractors are responsible for their own accounting, taxes, and reporting.

If your business is a partnership, another partner might be added. If your business is incorporated, another officer might be added. The obvious negative to these is that partial ownership is transfered and you might end up with a long-term problem that can't be easily gotten rid of.

Some of the most glaring potential problems are in the form of lawfully required benefit programs. Social Security and Medicare are federal mandates funded by contributions by both the employee and the employer equally. Unemployment insurance is a federal mandate overseen by the state governments, providing specific benefits. Workers' Compensation laws provide benefits for on-the-job injuries such as wage losses, disability (partial or total), retraining, etc. If a person performing services for you makes a claim for any of these, supported by evidence that he/she worked in your business, and appropriate contributions/taxes/payments were not made, you may find yourself facing legal actions with serious penalties attached.

It might be a good idea to discuss these things with an experienced business accountant or attorney before proceeding much further.

Best regards.

[kwelna]

You may have greater issue than that as when Obamacare hits you may have to provide affordable health insurance as well. I have seen and heard differing views on how this will actually effect small employers the opinions tend to be a bit sumlar but still no diffinitve information and I am too lazzy to read a 2500 page document of government speak that basically leaves them any number of loop holes to nail an business they want. This is one of the reasons the economy is slow to pick up. Many small employers are taking a wait and see approach to addding employees until they actually know how the system will work and how it will effect them (Read that as How much will it cost them.) But make no misrtake, if you provide material, equiptment etc. and direct their work, they are considered employees, Its very easily to this spiral into a big mess especially if the person is some how injured on the work site. In my experience as a contrator for 4 years back inthe 80's, they (the government) seemed to take great pleasure in shafting small businesses. They are greedy for more money, they have collected all they can from us for now. So they are looking for alternative ways to add to their tax coffers. I would look at "selling" your friend some tools and a sewing machine (say for $10) and pay him by the piece and have him work from his house or rent space in your shop. Have him get a sales tax id # and keep records of all financial transactions between the two of you (Rent, % of utilities, supplies and payment for items made) as proof that he is a contractor and not an employee. You need to make it look like he is not an employee but a person doing contract work. Let him come in and learn as a hobbyist. " NO pay but grant access to equiptment and have him make a few items for himself from berginning to end (Cutting out pieces to sewing, finishing etc. to learn). Once he is competent and confident, hire hime as a "contractor". But in any case talk to your accountant or a labor lawyer to make sure what ever you do will pass muster with the government before you try anything. I will only cost you about 200-500 dollars to speak with an attorney for an hour or two and may save you a lot more. Also, realize that he (Your contractor) may at some point wish to breakaway and start his own simular business. YOu may be creating a future competetor. Good luck and realize that our government be it local, state and national do like small business' . They have not liked us since about the 1950s. Anything they can do to squeeze money out of you they can and will . Once you are on their radar you are hosed. There ya got my $.02

Good luck!

[KAYAK45]

Wow.. Lobo..What a great, nearly all inclusive, succinct answer.

This really ought to be "pinned" for all to read in the future.

KWL, CPA. Senior Core Retired Executive (SCORE) Mentor.

[RMB Custom Leather]

Thank you all for the information! Don't forget to vote on a fair % to pay on the poll above.

Edited August 6, 2012 by RMB Custom Leather

[electrathon]

Thank you all for the information! Don't forget to vote on a fair % to pay on the poll above.

Unfortionatly your poll is flawed. It does not matter what % you are offering, if it does not cover minimum wage it is not enough.

[RMB Custom Leather]

Unfortionatly your poll is flawed. It does not matter what % you are offering, if it does not cover minimum wage it is not enough.

I have to have an idea of what commission I will pay before I can give him a package on pay guys, I will cover the other issues when I nail this down. Just want to know everyone's opinion on what they think would be a fair % on sales. The min. wage and laws coming with it are what they are, not much of a way around it. This poll is for what more other then min. wage should I offer, not really about employment laws. I do appreciate everyone's posts and information, I will take it all in before I make a decision. Maybe I should have worded it differently. Just want a ball park.

Edited August 7, 2012 by RMB Custom Leather