Working On My Very First Holster.....

[Bobby hdflame]

Thanks to Eric at Adams Leatherworks, http://www.adamsleat...m/hows-it-made/ I tackled my first holster. I wanted something for my XD .40 SubCompact, and I liked the looks of the Avenger style. This is my first holster with the pattern I made, so I used some cheap 7/9 oz leather I got from Tandy to test the pattern. Didn't want my very first one to be too plain Jane, so I did some quick basketweave on the reinforcement piece.

It's still drying, but I wanted to get some comments/suggestion from the PRO's on here. Everyone has already been a BIG help. I've been lurking and learning for a while!

This first picture shows it on my old wore out FD duty belt. A new belt is next. I quickly found out that it wouldn't fit on a 1/4" thick, heavy 1 1/2" gun belt. I made a short piece to form the loops and it wouldn't fit. (Picture at bottom.) I used a 3/8" hole punch spaced just barely over 1 1/2", then cut the leather out between it. I WILL be buying a wide chisel to use next!

I think if I just space the holes out about another 1/4", it should work about right. What kind of spacing and hole sizes are you guys using?

This picture shows a little closer. I could stand to move the stitch line just a bit closer to the trigger guard.

You may be able to tell in this picture that I mashed down the detail in my basketweave trying to get the thicker belt through the loops.

Another angle. I think I've got enough cant. It also looks like it should pull in pretty close to the body. I'll see after it dries over night.

And here's a picture of the backside.

My plans were to vinegaroon this holster. I did a sample piece of leather that had already been sewn to see if it affected the color of the stitching. No change at all.

The thing about vinegaroon is that until I put some oil on it, it's just grey. It seems that most don't oil molded holsters....is that true? If so, what do you recommend to get the leather a nice dark black? I was going to try some Bag Kote for a finish coat over the vinegaroon. If I air brush that on, will it turn it black?

How long does it need to dry? Should I put it in the oven or will it air dry enough in about 2 days? And should I leave the gun in it till it's completely dry?

Man, so many questions! When I started doing leatherwork, I didn't realize it could be so involved.

Here's a picture of the test piece I did with vinegaroon. It's a piece I was practicing sewing on.

If you look at the bottom edge you can see how much darker it is. I took my finger and just rubbed a touch of neatsfoot oil on it.

OK, give me your thoughts!

Edited September 4, 2012 by Bobby hdflame

[IngleGunLeather]

Hey bobby! Looks like you got your Cobra Class 4! Congrats! Looking good man. I personally don't bake mine anymore. I think I did one or two that way in the beginning. Now I just let em dry on their own. Now you got me wanting to practice my basket weaving.

[Bobby hdflame]

Hey bobby! Looks like you got your Cobra Class 4! Congrats! Looking good man. I personally don't bake mine anymore. I think I did one or two that way in the beginning. Now I just let em dry on their own. Now you got me wanting to practice my basket weaving.

Thanks. How long do you let them dry? Is there something you look for when it's dry?

I laid out the size and shape of the basketweave on another piece of leather and practiced on it first since it's been a while since I did a basketweave. It looked really good, and I got to use my new mauls from The Bearman.

I hate that I messed up the basketweave on the final piece when I was trying to fit the belt through the loops. I've got to figure out how big to make my loops for a 1/4" thick 1 1/2" belt. I guess I can take a scrap piece and put some different size holes and just experiment. Duh, I should've done tht first! Well, that's why I practiced on some cheap leather first. I still have two brand new pieces of Herman Oak waiting on me!

[Denster]

When it is dry it will no longer feel cool to the touch. Overnight will be more than enough. I believe warming them to 130deg F for at least 30n min or longer will materially add to the firmness of the holster. A quick dip in neatsfoot oil will turn the Vinegaroon jet black and will not harm the holster.

Darn good job for your first one.

[joshk]

just a quick tip.... from the looks of the pic you may need to add a bit more clearance between the top of the holster and the trigger guard/grip area.... it's hard to tell for sure from the pics, but if it's too close you'll have a difficult time getting a full firing grip on the draw....

[Bobby hdflame]

When it is dry it will no longer feel cool to the touch. Overnight will be more than enough. I believe warming them to 130deg F for at least 30n min or longer will materially add to the firmness of the holster. A quick dip in neatsfoot oil will turn the Vinegaroon jet black and will not harm the holster.

Darn good job for your first one.

Thanks. I'm anxious to see how the retention will be in the morning. I was planning on just using a dauber to put some neatsfoot on it. I was scared that the neatsfoot would soften it too much and affect the retention, at least that's what I'd read somewhere.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Bobby hdflame

[Bobby hdflame]

just a quick tip.... from the looks of the pic you may need to add a bit more clearance between the top of the holster and the trigger guard/grip area.... it's hard to tell for sure from the pics, but if it's too close you'll have a difficult time getting a full firing grip on the draw....

Good eye! I meant to mention that in my first post but forgot about it. Can I get it out, yes. Would it be better with a little more clearance, yes.

That will be one of the changes I make on the next one. I think one more out of the cheap leather, then I should be ready for the Herman Oak.

You know, in retrospect, the boning and molding was one of the hardest things to do. I don't think I let the leather get wet enough. Next time I'll put a few drops of Dawn in the water. I saw that in Eric's video, but I got in a hurry and forgot it. He made it look so easy.

I need to make a checklist of things to do until I get used to everything! I've actually done that on some of the upholstery items I make. If you do something out of order, you have to rip out stitches and do it over.

Edited September 4, 2012 by Bobby hdflame

[IngleGunLeather]

Good eye! I meant to mention that in my first post but forgot about it. Can I get it out, yes. Would it be better with a little more clearance, yes.

That will be one of the changes I make on the next one. I think one more out of the cheap leather, then I should be ready for the Herman Oak.

You know, in retrospect, the boning and molding was one of the hardest things to do. I don't think I let the leather get wet enough. Next time I'll put a few drops of Dawn in the water. I saw that in Eric's video, but I got in a hurry and forgot it. He made it look so easy.

I need to make a checklist of things to do until I get used to everything! I've actually done that on some of the upholstery items I make. If you do something out of order, you have to rip out stitches and do it over.

I saw that on his video and have been adding dish soap ever since. And that Tandy leather is by far the worst to mold and it doesn't retain like the HO does.

[Bobby hdflame]

" I saw that on his video and have been adding dish soap ever since. And that Tandy leather is by far the worst to mold and it doesn't retain like the HO does. "

That's good to know. I'm looking forward to working with the HO!

[mlapaglia]

Your vinegaroon may be week or the leather is low on tannins if its only turning gray before you oil it. Mine always turns a just black. I always oil my leather after tooling it or after a vinegaroon treatment. It will not soften up the leather enough to matter. If you dried it in an oven or hot box for 10-15 minutes at 125 degs F it will not change at all with the oil. I have never had a holster go soft after being treated with neatsfoot oil.

It will be fine. As for the slots I use a 5/16 hole punch at each end and then connect the holes with a 1.5" chisel. works great and the belts always fit fine.

[Denster]

Mlapaglia is correct. Neatsfoot oil will not soften the holster and a quick dip is all that is needed. As to moisture content of the leather adding a few drops of dish washing liquid does break the surface tension and allow the moisture to penetrate better. You should wait to do your molding until the leather has returned to it's natural color.

[Bobby hdflame]

Thanks for the suggestions. Any suggestions for increasing the strength of my vinegaroon? Mine still has a vinegar smell to it. I made a second batch and kept putting steel wool in it till it stopped dissolving and still smelled like vinegar too. Difference was it keeps getting brown milky/cloudy looking even after multiple filtering. The brown mostly settles in the bottom. I read that heating it would start it working again, but just heat to like hot tap water, not boiling.

As for the molding. You're correct, I was in a hurry and started when it was pretty wet.

[mlapaglia]

Thanks for the suggestions. Any suggestions for increasing the strength of my vinegaroon? Mine still has a vinegar smell to it. I made a second batch and kept putting steel wool in it till it stopped dissolving and still smelled like vinegar too. Difference was it keeps getting brown milky/cloudy looking even after multiple filtering. The brown mostly settles in the bottom. I read that heating it would start it working again, but just heat to like hot tap water, not boiling.

As for the molding. You're correct, I was in a hurry and started when it was pretty wet.

It will always smell like vinegar. It does turn brown and mine kept having stuff settle to the bottom for a long time but it worked great. Just keep adding steel wool until it stops dissolving it. takes at least 2 weeks minimum. You can also dip your leather in some really strong tea first to add tannin to the leather for the vinegaroon to react too. Never heard about heating it to make it work better. I think you need to read something from a few places before you take it as something you should do

But for the moment use the 'roon you have and then oil it and you will be fine.

[Denster]

Vinegaroon really comes into it's own after three or four months and longer. By then it has turned a deep blood red and a lot of the smell has gone away. Vinegar is cheap buy a couple gallons and tear up five pads of 0000 steel wool in each put the lid on loosely and put it in a dark place and forget it for awhile. I don't believe heating it is a good idea unless you want to stink up the house.

[chiefjason]

My vinegroon process recently has been to groon, let dry for 24 hours. Oil, let dry for 24 hours. Finish with acrylic finish, let dry 24 hours. Second coat of acrylic, dry 24 hours. It also fits well with my work schedule. There is nothing quick about it. But I was also having finish issues and the drying time seems to have solved those.

Generally, if the groon is grayish looking it will blacken up with the baking soda wash then again with oiling. I usually notice more gray as the groon gets older and there is less of it. Initially, it goes jet black pretty quick. And it seems that a fresh baking soda bath produces the best results. I'll use the bath for several holster before replenishing. But if it goes too long you start to notice the black is not as deep.

And I always have a quart of groon "cooking". That way I can replace it or combine it, and I don't run out.

Good looking work too.

[particle]

Bobby - nice job on the holster! You're off to a great start! Did your Cobra's servo motor come with the sensitivity fixed already?

[Bobby hdflame]

Thanks to everyone for the advice and comments.

The vinegaroon I'm using now, set for about 2 months before I ever used it the first time. I added steel wool to it until it stopped dissolving, then let it set a couple more weeks before straining it and using.

Even when mine was first used, it turned the leather grey. I'm thinking it might have something to do with how the leather was tanned. I've only used it on Tandy leather so far, but I'm curious as to how it will work with the Herman Oak I have. I'll post results here when I try it.

On Adam's Leatherworks, Eric talks about heating it up to the temp of warm tap water, I think was the way he described it. http://www.adamsleatherworks.com/2012/08/26/vinegaroon-a-k-a-vinegar-black/

Will Ghormley talks about heating up his "Rust Barrel" and actually has it sitting on a homemade fire pit. I think Will is using just water and steel, no mention of vinegar.

Here's his how to:http://www.willghormley-maker.com/MakingHOGRig.html

I have used it on other projects but have never used the baking soda wash afterwards. Does it make it darker? Does it neutralize the vinegar smell? I haven't noticed any problems with the leather I've used it on.

[chiefjason]

I have used it on other projects but have never used the baking soda wash afterwards. Does it make it darker? Does it neutralize the vinegar smell? I haven't noticed any problems with the leather I've used it on.

The baking soda bath neutralizes the acid in the groon. Anything I have read says this is an absolutely necessary step. I use 1/4C baking soda to a gallon of water. One of the risks of not doing a baking soda bath is that the leather may actually fall apart over time. It also seems to make the black darker and deeper. And it does seem to help a bit with the smell.

Scroll down to ChuckBurrows post here, great info.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=25481&st=0&p=160796&hl=vinegroon&fromsearch=1entry160796

[Denster]

I doubt you will hurt anything heating the vinigaroon but it will smell. Eric works in his garage so it may not be a problem I still wouldn't do it in the house. As to Will's method that is somewhat different. Vinegaroon is ferric acetate that reacts with the tannins. Will's method produces iron oxide. A plus to Will's method is no vinegar smell.

[Bobby hdflame]

The baking soda bath neutralizes the acid in the groon. Anything I have read says this is an absolutely necessary step. I use 1/4C baking soda to a gallon of water. One of the risks of not doing a baking soda bath is that the leather may actually fall apart over time. It also seems to make the black darker and deeper. And it does seem to help a bit with the smell.

Scroll down to ChuckBurrows post here, great info.

http://leatherworker...=1

How long does it get dunked in the baking soda wash?

I doubt you will hurt anything heating the vinigaroon but it will smell. Eric works in his garage so it may not be a problem I still wouldn't do it in the house. As to Will's method that is somewhat different. Vinegaroon is ferric acetate that reacts with the tannins. Will's method produces iron oxide. A plus to Will's method is no vinegar smell.

I wonder if it works as good as the vinegaroon? Heck, I'll just make up a barrel of rusty water!

[Denster]

How long does it get dunked in the baking soda wash?

I wonder if it works as good as the vinegaroon? Heck, I'll just make up a barrel of rusty water!

I don't know. I've long since gone to drum dyed leather. Since Will uses it I'm sure it works. Iron oxide will turn leather black for sure. I believe you can buy it in crystaline form from chemical supply houses.

[chiefjason]

How long does it get dunked in the baking soda wash?

I do mine for a minute or two. No real hard and fast time. There will be some bubbles at first, by the time I pull the leather out they have pretty much stopped. I just want it to penetrate a bit and stop the groon from working. Then I rinse it off in the sink. The one thing I do different than the link suggests is that I let the leather dry for 24 hours after the groon, baking soda, water rinse is finished before applying neatsfoot oil. Then I let the oil dry 24 hours before applying my sealant. I use a 50/50 solution of mop & glo mixed with water. I was having problems with my finish when I oiled right after grooning. If I let it dry 24 hours between steps I don't have the problems.

[renegadelizard]

Nice looking rig Bobby...a lot better than my first...the one thing that stands out to me though, and im just nit picking here...is the boning...the stuff you intended to do looks great...the places where your tools slipped though...it kind of detracts from the overall beauty...i think we all do it sometimes, i know i do..but im quick to rub it out as best i can as soon as it happens...after you dunk your holster and before molding, clip your nails real short and wash the crap out of your hands..lie surgical clean...this will let the leather dry out a bit and get your hands ready to work it...clean your tools too...make sure your not gonna put some dye rub off from the last job on the new one...keep cranking away..your looking really good...

[Bobby hdflame]

Nice looking rig Bobby...a lot better than my first...the one thing that stands out to me though, and im just nit picking here...is the boning...the stuff you intended to do looks great...the places where your tools slipped though...it kind of detracts from the overall beauty...i think we all do it sometimes, i know i do..but im quick to rub it out as best i can as soon as it happens...after you dunk your holster and before molding, clip your nails real short and wash the crap out of your hands..lie surgical clean...this will let the leather dry out a bit and get your hands ready to work it...clean your tools too...make sure your not gonna put some dye rub off from the last job on the new one...keep cranking away..your looking really good...

Thanks for the critique. I keep my nails cut short, but I think my main problem is not having the proper tools to mold and bone with. Most of the blemishes you see on the holster were there before I started. I used some cheap leather to practice with so I didn't do ALL of the things you mentioned to my Herman Oak!

I did make a few slips with my tools that I was using. Do you, or anyone else have some tools to recommend or some pictures of homemade tools?

Sounds like I need to wear surgical gloves when I get out the Herman Oak! I've already done a second one and dyed it with my vinegaroon. I'll post a couple of pictures of it tomorrow. Each practice one I do, I learn from it. I'm gonna try a pancake next or maybe a pocket holster for the LCP I just got.

Keep the suggestions coming, I appreciate the help.

[renegadelizard]

1347077837[/url]' post='263587']

Thanks for the critique. I keep my nails cut short, but I think my main problem is not having the proper tools to mold and bone with. Most of the blemishes you see on the holster were there before I started. I used some cheap leather to practice with so I didn't do ALL of the things you mentioned to my Herman Oak!

I did make a few slips with my tools that I was using. Do you, or anyone else have some tools to recommend or some pictures of homemade tools?

Sounds like I need to wear surgical gloves when I get out the Herman Oak! I've already done a second one and dyed it with my vinegaroon. I'll post a couple of pictures of it tomorrow. Each practice one I do, I learn from it. I'm gonna try a pancake next or maybe a pocket holster for the LCP I just got.

Keep the suggestions coming, I appreciate the help.

Well that would explain a lot, the leather you used...here is one of the tools I use quite a bit.. http://springfieldleather.com/24832/Modeler%2COsborne%2C%23471/

This and the bone folder and my fingers are about the only tools I use...pancake holsters are my favorite...especially pancake holsters for the lcp....they are like real holsters only smaller..lol ...I wear one everyday...

Keep us posted on the progress, can't wait to pics of the next one...you can tell when a person has skill, and you got it....your holsters are just gonna keep getting better and better