Tippmann Boss - Timing/tension Issues

[Chavez]

Hi!

I got my boss a couple weeks ago and didn't have enough time to sort out the thread tension yet, but having played with it again today I think something might be wrong with my timing =( I would probably have to email/call tippmann, but before I do that I thought I'd ask here.

The problem I get is that my bobbin thread is not being pulled into the leather by the top thread, even if I set bobbin tension to min and increase top tension.

What I've noticed today:

1) My shuttle driver seems to have some free movement (about 3-4 degrees), even if I hold the handle still. On rare occasions this results in the shuttle not catching the top thread. Any advice on how to fix it?

2) My thread seems to be fraying even though the needle is the right size.

3) The Boss is very jerky when I'm pushing the handle up. this occurs when the top thread is being pulled up by the thread take-up hand and the top thread gets stuck while looping around the bobbin. As I keep pushing the handle, the tension builds up and the thread slips from the bobbin, making the handle jump up. This issue makes me think that my timing might be off.

Any advice would be very welcome!

Thank you!

[Denster]

Timing is not an issue with the Boss. If it is out of time something is broken. To set the tension start with the bobbin. Almost everyone sets the bobbin tension way to tight. The thread should flow freely from the bobbin with only about 1lb of tension. This doesn't have to be measured exactly just feel for a slight resistance. Set the seondary tensioner with two full turns and the primary tensioner with one and a half turns. Make tweaks with only the primary tensioner. The second mistake most folks make is not having enough presser foot pressure. It has to be tight enough that the leather is not moved when the bottom loop is pulled into the leather. Too much tension won't hurt to little will give you fits. The fraying is probably the result of having the bobbin tension way too tight and then trying to compensate with too much top tension. Don't try to overcomplicate things the Boss is really a simple machine. One other thing the Boss needs a real stable platform if you have it mounted to something that wiggles and shakes you will have problems.

Hope this helps.

[Chavez]

Thank you Denster - I've been trying it on a rather shaky table, so I'll give it a go on a sturdy one instead.

Tension wise, I've reduced the bobbin tension as much as I could but still could not get great results.

I'll do a few more runs tomorrow and see how it goes.

Does your handle also "jump" when you are pushing it up as the top thread slips from the bobbin?

Edited September 29, 2012 by Chavez

[Denster]

Set the top tension also as I mentioned. Also crank down the presser foot pressure that is the next most likely culprit.

[Dwight]

First thing, . . . take out the bobbin, . . . pull the thread out of the machine.

Now, . . . does it function smoothly with a doubled piece of 7 oz leather running through it? With your stitch adjustment set for the longest stitch, . . . you should be able to measure something like 4 1/2 stitches per inch. Four is good, . . . 5 is good too. That means that the mechanical needle movement, leather movement, shuttle & bobbin movement are doing what they should do if the stroking is smooth and "catch free".

If it isn't, . . . then you have a mechanical problem. I had one once where a collar slipped, . . . gave me some SERIOUS fits.

If that is all good, . . . put your bobbin back in, . . . re-thread your machine. I usually use one size bigger needle than needed, . . . just so my thread flows very smoothly through the system.

Placing the needle correctly takes some getting used to. I usually use a stick pin that will not go through the hole, . . . and line it up at a 90 degree angle to the travel of the leather, . . . then tighten down my needle clamp. The needle needs to be all the way to the top in it's slot.

Make sure the full length groove on the needle is to the left. Won't work the other way.

As mentioned earlier, . . . you want some drag, . . . but not much on the bobbin, . . . it just cannot free float, . . .

I usually loosen both top adjusters for free float then give both one full turn to start out.

Take a typical piece of your work (mine is usually something like two pieces of 7 oz veggie tan) and start sewing, . . . sew 10 stitches, . . . stop and cut the threads.

Look to see where your threads come together. If they are squarely in the center between the layers of leather, . . . then you only have to make sure they are tight enough to hold correctly, . . . or are pulled down into your thread gouge.

Personally, . . . I like my threads tight, . . . not everyone does, . . . I also like using 400+ thread, . . . I like the bold look, . . . big stitches.

Work with it, . . . it'll get there.

Do 10 stitches, . . . check it, . . . adjust as needed. Do 10 more, . . . check it adjust as needed. Keep at it until you get what you want.

Also, . . . never put sewing machine oil on your machine. That is for Singers, . . . not for a Boss.

May God bless,

Dwight

[mlapaglia]

If you want to set the bobbin tension to 1 lb get your self something that weighs 1 lb. Water in a disposable bottle is a good idea. Pull the shuttle assembly out and tie the string to the weight. if you can lift the shuttle and the weight lifts also its too tight. With the weight in the air and the shuttle (With bobbin) held horizontal adjust the screw until the weight starts to drop. Set it down and check it again. Your pull tension will be as close to 1 lb as you can with out a pull gauge.

If that makes no sense just put the shuttle back in and set it for a light drag. Put 12 inches thread on the same 1 lb weight and pull it across a smooth table. That will give you a feel for a 1 lb tension. But the hanging bottle does work great to set the tension on the shuttle. I did mine that way then when I bought a trigger gauge I tested it and was at 17 oz.

Michael.

(please excuse the spelling errors. the spell check in Firefox is still not working on the new board.)

[Chavez]

Thanks Michael,

Right... I've measured 450ml of tap water (should be close to 450g, i.e. 1lb). Poured this water into a condom (assumed negligible weight) and tied it to the shuttle thread. Set the right tension on the shuttle, and the top thread doesn't pull the bobbin thread into the leather at all =(

Boss still skips an occasional stitch and the shuttle driver still has some slack (don't think that bobbin tension affects it =( ).

Looks like its an email to Tippmann =(

[Denster]

The shuttle on all Boss's will have that free play just ignore it. Don't know what you mean by setting the tension on the shuttle. The top thread tension is set as a start by backing off the nut on both tensioners and then spinning them down till they just touch. Then give the secondary tensioner the one on the right two full turns and the primary tensioner one and a half turns. Sew a few stitches and if the bottom thread isn't being pulled into the leather increase the tension on the primary by 1/2 turn and repeat as necessary untill the bottom thread is pulled into the leather. What weight of leather are you sewing and what thread are you using?

[husker]

Is it possible your thread take-up lever is not adjusted correctly and that is why it is not pulling the bobbin up into the leather? You will have to check your instructions on that, it details in there pretty well how to adjust that. I had problems with it myself with similiar issues, once I got it adjusted it has run perfectly.

[mlapaglia]

Call Ben at Tippmann. HE can and will help you. Its a free call. Just call before 4:30 pm their time.

[Denster]

I sent an answer to your PM. lso do what Husker said and check the adjustment of your thread take up arm per your manual. If this is out of position it could cause the situation you PMd me about and not pulling the stitch into the leather.

[Chavez]

Thank you for the replies guys.

One last question: when setting tension on the bobbin using a 1lb weight, do I hold the shuttle with the thread hole pointing down (i.e. least resistance from shuttle) or with the thread angled (resulting in higher shuttle tension, hence, lower bobbin tension setting)? Should have asked this question earlier =((

Was working away from home this week so had no change to call Tippmann yet =(

Thank you!

[mlapaglia]

Thank you for the replies guys.

One last question: when setting tension on the bobbin using a 1lb weight, do I hold the shuttle with the thread hole pointing down (i.e. least resistance from shuttle) or with the thread angled (resulting in higher shuttle tension, hence, lower bobbin tension setting)? Should have asked this question earlier =((

Was working away from home this week so had no change to call Tippmann yet =(

Thank you!

Point the hole down.

I hold the shuttle horizontal so the thread has the least drag on it.

[Chavez]

Thanks!

[Chavez]

Right, adjusted the thread takeup arm and now the Boss is working!

What is the max tension you would set on primary& secondary tensioners? do 4 half-turns (primary) and 5 half-turns (secondary) sound reasonable (& safe for the Boss) or do you usually stay at 3 & 4 as per the manual?

Thanks again!

[mlapaglia]

Whatever makes a good stitch is the correct setting. You might want to get some 1/4-20 nuts and screw them down over the tension nuts to keep the tension from changing as you sew. You will also find you may need to adjust the main tension when you change thread sizes. There is no "Correct" setting on the tensions. As long as its a good stitch you have it set correctly. For my machine your secondary tension is more than mine but not enough to matter.

What ever makes a good stitch is the correct setting. You might want to get some 1/4 20 buts and screw them down over the tension nuts to keep the tension from changing as you sew. You will also find you may need to adjust the main tension when you change thread sizes. There is no "Correct" setting on the tensions. As long as its a good stitch you have it set correctly.

[Chavez]

Thanks.

Just a bit afraid to break something, though looking at the Boss it seems highly unlikely that anything can break in such a monster=)

[mlapaglia]

The rack gear that the gear on the handle meshes with will break but its designed to so you dont break something important. But tension adjustments shouldnt cause any issues. Just go slowly with your adjustments no more than a 1/4 turn at a time.

Let us know when you get it. Or let me know if you still get stuck and I can call you.