Stitching Awl Or Stitching Chisel

[oclack]

Okay, I've been poking around the site now for a while and have learned a ton, but I also have lots of questions. Like...

Should I be using a stitching awl or stitching chisel?

Until now, I've been using one of several chisels (6, 2 and 1 points) I got from Tandy on everything I do. I've been using my awl (I got from Tandy) just to widen holes as I stitch so I can pass two needles through at the same time. It pointed, but far from sharp like what I hear about Bob Douglas awls. What am I missing here? When should I be using an awl or the chisel.

Getting Stitching Holes to Line Up?

What's the trick here? I think I've experimented every which way and cant say I've found the "right" way yet. If I punch holes first, they're less likely to lineup perfectly. But If I glue first, then punch holes, I have to go back over it with the dye again. Using the groover make it even more complicated and difficult to get things lined up.

Should I always use a groover?

I understand the groovers are used to recess and protect stitching lines. I've been doing it on EVERYTHING regardless of how it will be used because I thought 'that's just how its done'. After reading through the forums, I'm not so sure. Should I stop using the groover?

Why/when should I use an overstitch wheel?

I've been using it to layout holes around corners and curves. Should I be using it for something else?

If it helps... I primarily have been working with leather weights between 3oz and 9oz to make variety of large and small cases/bags, iPad sleeves, and wallets. I've been stitching everything hand using Tandy needles and what I think is 4oz waxed nylon thread.

Any help and suggestions you can offer are appreciated. Thanks.

- Odin

[TwinOaks]

You should be using a 'diamond awl', not the stitching awl. The stitching awl is the one with the spool of thread on it. I see that you're using the awl to widen the holes, and that may be part of the problem you're having with aligning holes --leather sometimes stretches 'funny', especially if you happen to be at an angle.

The chisels make pretty big holes compared to an awl, so your stitching would look kind of spaced out.

Here's how to use the tools you have:

Glue your pieces together - that's not as easy as you might think because you need to get glue to the edge, but not ON the edge. Then, even up your edges if they aren't. You can do that with a knife or by sanding....the key is that the top and bottom pieces are in the same place.

You need to make an equidistant line from the edge, both front and back. You can use the groover to do that, just don't change the setting, and your groove line will be in the same place, front and back, provided you've squared up the edge.

Now, use the overstitch wheel to mark the location of each hole in the groove. Push the awl straight through the leather....as in perpendicular....and watch the back side. You'll see the back side swell just a tiny bit right before the tip comes through. If it isn't in the right spot, back the awl out a little and reposition it so that the tip comes out in the groove. If you have a surface that you can stab into, you can place the leather on that surface and push straight down. When starting, it's sometimes easier to stay straight when the leather is flat.

Now that you've got a hole, run the needles through that hole. It SHOULD BE A TIGHT FIT, and you might have to use pliers to pull the needles through. If you do, pull straight, and once the needle is out, use the thread to pull it tight.

Maintain the exact same stitching pattern for the length of your stitch line. If you start with the right needle, push it through and pull back (towards previous stitches) and OVER the left hand thread, then push the left hand needle through, you need to do that with every single stitch. Don't swap needle over, needle under, start on right, start on left. Each stitch needs to be made in the same manner. That will add consistency.

When your stitches are done, lay the work flat and tap it down, then pick up the over stitch wheel again. Set one of the little points in one of the holes and start rolling. This flattens the stitches down into the groove and clearly delineates each stitch.

If you want to see some good examples of this, look at the work by Katsass.

[katsass]

From the grump; Hell, nothing else to say, except - - one needle at a time - - NOT !! "two needles at the same time". Mike

Edited October 24, 2012 by katsass

[katsass]

From the grump: This is about as easy as I can make it. IT AIN'T ROCKET SCIENCE!! (1) gouge (or groove, whatever the hell you want to call it) (2) dampen the leather slightly and run your overstitch to mark holes. (3) go to poking holes with the awl. That's about it. Look at the pic. On the right side you see the gouge, left of that are the marks from the over stitch, and left of that are the little holes with the flat edge of them in proper relation to the edge of the leather. That's a #1 needle and the blade of my awl (about 3/32" wide) for comparison. Those chisels are for lacing and aren't worth a red rat's toukas for stitching, JMHO Mike

Edited October 26, 2012 by katsass

[oclack]

Okay so this is what I've learned...

1. Glue and trim pieces first. Then use groover.
   
2. pass 1 needle through the leather at a time, NOT 2 at a time.
   
3. use an overstitch wheel to make holes, followed by an awl to punch holes. NOT a chisel and maul.
   
4. run the over stitch wheel over the stitches once complete.
   
5. ditch the chisels
   

Sounds simple enough. I'll give it all a try. Thanks for the help.

[TwinOaks]

Flip #2 and #3, and you've got it.

Also, don't ditch the chisels. They can still be useful for lacing should you want to try that, and they ARE pretty useful for prying open glue cans when you can't find your flat head screwdriver. The point is, you've acquired the tools so hang on to them (just not for making hole for thread).

[HellfireJack]

When was the last time you guys actually used a stitching chisel? I'm fairly certain my chisel will produce results comparable to Katsass' example. You definitely could not use them for lacing.

[HellfireJack]

Here's an example of what an actual stitching chisel does. That is a size one harness needle in the image along with the chisel used to create the holes with 3 mm spacing.

Do you guys really see these holes as being that much bigger that you could use them for lacing or am I missing something? Keep in mind that I'm not attacking you guys. I'm looking for actual answers. I see people who are die hard awl users complain about chisels a lot and having seen the neat orderly holes they can create I wonder why.

Edited October 27, 2012 by HellfireJack

[TwinOaks]

Last time I used one was about 4 years ago....right before I before I learned about using an awl. An important thing to remember is that all awls are NOT created equal. The 'Awl Set' that has a honkin' big awl blade isn't suitable either. A good awl will have a small and thin (yet very sharp) blade that is not much larger than the needle that will be used to sew with.

Here's some good info: http://leatherworker...317

and ESPECIALLY THIS ONE

http://leatherworker...blade **post #8** It's a large pic, so click and drag the pic to a new tab.

I have the Osborne awl, and just measuring it, it is 2.5mm wide. That puts the Douglas awl at around 2mm and the P.M. awl at somewhere around 1.5. Since I don't have the others in my hand, I resized the screen to make the Osborne holes 2.5mm and then took the measurements of the others. Not really scientific, but good enough for illustrative purposes.

[TwinOaks]

Cross posted......I was looking up links when you posted that, Jack.

Yes, that IS a good looking chisel line. No argument there. The ones I've seen and used were about 3 times that size. Since I've gone to the awl, I haven't every tried anything else....except a sewing machine.

I'll start looking around and see what is new(to me) on the market.

Incidentally, another reason I recommend the awl is that until you get up to around 3/4ths to 7/8ths of an inch, you can just go through all the layers at once. Maybe more or less, depending on the awl size. And when more than that is needed, it's pretty easy to start the hole in one side, then flip it around and 'feel' for the hole from the opposite side. It's also pretty dang quiet....except for accidental stabbings.

[immiketoo]

Cross posted......I was looking up links when you posted that, Jack.

Yes, that IS a good looking chisel line. No argument there. The ones I've seen and used were about 3 times that size. Since I've gone to the awl, I haven't every tried anything else....except a sewing machine.

I'll start looking around and see what is new(to me) on the market.

Incidentally, another reason I recommend the awl is that until you get up to around 3/4ths to 7/8ths of an inch, you can just go through all the layers at once. Maybe more or less, depending on the awl size. And when more than that is needed, it's pretty easy to start the hole in one side, then flip it around and 'feel' for the hole from the opposite side. It's also pretty dang quiet....except for accidental stabbings.

LOL@ accidental stabbings! I feel your pain... well my pain actually but you get the point. Pun intended.

[TwinOaks]

I usually say this in a joking manner: "Your awl should be sharp enough to get at least halfway through your finger before you feel it."

There is, however, more than a little truth to that. I altered my method for making stitching holes because I'd more than once stabbed my finger AFTER going through the leather....and didn't know it until I was a little over 1/8th inch IN my finger. I have a really simple test for point sharpness - I use an empty drink bottle and if the plastic resists puncture at all, the awl needs to be sharper. Most of the time the point just glides right through. Having a scary sharp point is CRITICAL to the process because it lets you penetrate the leather without pushing against it. Yes, you push the awl. A dull point will push the leather over, often resulting in a misplaced exit hole...if you're using a clam. What I started doing is laying everything out on a table with a self healing soft mat under the leather and stabbing 'starter' holes vertically, then re-stabbing if I needed to widen the hole. Since I don't have a clam/horse, my alternative was holding the leather in my hands while I stabbed it.....hence my changing methods.

Also, if you have a dull blade, you tend to push the awl harder and when it penetrates the leather it'll also penetrate whatever is on the OTHER side of the leather. If you're feeling for the point (a way to assure correct placement) and suddenly have less resistance on the blade....well, you get the bandaids.

[HellfireJack]

Ah, I didn't think I was crazy. I think it may have been a case of "Not all chisels are made the same" as well. The GoodsJapan chisels and Pro series Craftool chisels are much better than the plain old Craftool chisels. They have far smaller prongs.

I think you're probably right that using an awl on thick leather would be easier. I have an Osborne awl here that I stopped using because I didn't like the shape of the holes that it made. I think I'll reshape it and put some hours in with it but for double thicknesses of less than 9/10 ounces I'll stick to my chisels as it's way faster for me. Who knows maybe I'll eventually switch to the awl completely.

[katsass]

Here's an example of what an actual stitching chisel does. That is a size one harness needle in the image along with the chisel used to create the holes with 3 mm spacing.

Do you guys really see these holes as being that much bigger that you could use them for lacing or am I missing something? Keep in mind that I'm not attacking you guys. I'm looking for actual answers. I see people who are die hard awl users complain about chisels a lot and having seen the neat orderly holes they can create I wonder why.

From the old grump: Well, Hell! I didn't even know that this sort of punch, chisel or doo-dad existed. My tools and I have been on good (or reasonable) terms for so long that I just do not go looking for new stuff to replace them. This thing sort of puts a 'hole' new 'slant' on things. All the ones I have seen were a series of slanted chisels (suitable for lacing) or dinky (but not dinky enough) round hole punches. I'm sure that for curves and such, another similar single one would be needed (or back to a good awl) and I don't know how well it would work on four layers of 4/5oz and heavier stuff. Might be worth wandering through some of the newer tools just so that i didn't end up coming off as an anachronism. Mike

[HellfireJack]

I find I constantly look for three types of new things: Tools, software and electronics.

I use a four prong and two prong. The four for straight runs and the two for curves. In both cases I always put the first prong in the last hole.

Best use for me is to use a heavier mallet and hit with enough force to put just the tips through the piece. Usually it will just pop right back out. The deeper you put it into your protective board the harder it is to remove from both the leather and the board. Waxing the chisel as you would an awl also helps.

[oclack]

Well that all makes me feel a bit better.... I've been using a 6 prong chisel to punch all my work. I do think I'll have to invest in a good awl. Even though I apply wax tot my chisels, Its a pain to get it out of anything more than a 1/4 inch of thicker leather - maybe not so bad with 4 prongs though. Seems a good awl would be a better tool for this.

[St8LineGunsmith]

ya there is such a thing as stitching chisels made for making stitching holes not to be confused with lacing chisels then you have flat lacing chisels and diamond lacing chisels

and there is also a difference between a stitching awl and a sewing awl, stitching awl haft is the type you use to stab through the leather to make the stitching hole,

a sewing awl is the type with a spool of thread and a sewing needle.

I learned the difference between these types of tools when I was a saddle makers apprentice as a teenager.

[St8LineGunsmith]

Well that all makes me feel a bit better.... I've been using a 6 prong chisel to punch all my work. I do think I'll have to invest in a good awl. Even though I apply wax tot my chisels, Its a pain to get it out of anything more than a 1/4 inch of thicker leather - maybe not so bad with 4 prongs though. Seems a good awl would be a better tool for this.

stitching chisels work better on thinner leather like6-7 oz

i use a drill press or a dremel and a small drill bit to make my holes

lot of people use the drill method whikle others will tell you it is not the proper way to make stitch holes

everyone has their own method of how to make their stitch holes I think where most will agree is to cement the pieces to be sewn together first before laying out the stitch line and punching/stabbing/drilling the holes.

[macdaddytoolin]

what you can do is take you leather piece and fold it in half and find the halfway on both pieces of leather then strattle the line then you'll have the same holes to line up with the same amount of holes I use a chisle 1/16 that's how I was tought

[stangman645]

Hello All,

I'm new to the craft and I've found that using the chisels works for me for now. I've had no problems with getting my lines straight and hole to line up with out glue. Here is one of my first projects and I think it turned out pretty good. The key it taking your time I think.

[sepharad]

Fascinating, I started out with awl, but went to irons, but only after identifying quality ones. I love my peers at tandy, but one look at their irons convinced to spend more and accept only a really high quality tool. I bought from goodsjapan and am glad I spent the money. The stitches are fine, even, and I don't use "rope", just imported unwaxed linen. I make my own wax. The irons holes are so tight I frequently have to use pliers. My hats off to the awl-masters, but my hands and eyes appreciate the irons results.

[llucas]

How do ya'll sharpen those pronged stitching punches?