Singer 111W155 Timing/thread Issues

[dmar836]

Thanks a bunch!

Dave

[dmar836]

Have I officially hijacked Tom's thread yet? I was using the same thread with different colors while testing. I switched the top thread to a matching color and now I'm breaking top threads again. I watched and I am occasionally leaving a loop of top thread under the plate and when the hook comes around it snags it. This happens after about 7" of good stitching. Could it be the thread controller? It appears to be the hook cutting it and not the needle. In fact the needle isn't in the plate when The thread snaps. I have played with most of its adjustments on the thread controller but They don't appear to change anything.

Dave

[gottaknow]

The check spring isn't for pulling up the thread. Your timing may be advanced too much or you need to increase the latch opener, or both more later...

[gottaknow]

...ok, aside from the advanced timing and your latch opener being too tight, your needle could be a bit small for your thread. You can increase your needle tension a bit and balance your bobbin tension accordingly. I would re-check your latch opener adjustment. You can open it wider as long as it doesn't hit the other side of the notch in the throat plate. After doing that and it's still breaking even with a larger needle, I'd say your hook timing is advanced too far. As I said earlier, I usually retard the timing on vertical hook machines. They seem to run with less issues.

As for Tom's thread, this should all be applicable to his machine when the time comes. I'm sure he doesn't mind.

Regards, Eric

[TSquared]

Dave,

not to worry. I will eventually have the same issues that you have now. you are just a few steps ahead of me. I have attached some photos of the way I threaded my machine. It appears to be the same as what was shown in Eric's diagram. I now have the thread between the two plates. Even with the nut backed all the way (almost ready to fall off) the thread pulls so hard that I can break it before I can get it to advance. The machine is able to sew but the tension is so tight on the top that it curls the material. At this rate, it might be Christmas vacation before I start using it. LOL

Tom

[TSquared]

I don't know why I view these photos on my Pc and they are in the correct orientation but when I post them they get rotated. Maybe I need to rotate them first and then they will be correct after posting. What a pain in the patute. I took a video of my needle bar and walking foot but I just can't seem to get it posted. I still have the issue with the needle bar hitting the walking foot (when it is attached). When sewing, the walking foot bar does not move up and down. I know, get one issue solved at a time....I am just getting a little impatient and too old.

[gottaknow]

You've missed the guide on the way down to your needle. It's likely pinching where the guide's mounted. I reattched your pic so you could see it. My red line should go inside that guide, but I think you get the idea.

Regards, Eric

Edited November 21, 2012 by gottaknow

[gottaknow]

I don't know why I view these photos on my Pc and they are in the correct orientation but when I post them they get rotated. Maybe I need to rotate them first and then they will be correct after posting. What a pain in the patute. I took a video of my needle bar and walking foot but I just can't seem to get it posted. I still have the issue with the needle bar hitting the walking foot (when it is attached). When sewing, the walking foot bar does not move up and down. I know, get one issue solved at a time....I am just getting a little impatient and too old.

We'll get that resolved Tom. The process is pretty straight forward. You set your stitch length to zero, and measure between your needle bar and presser bar. There's a reference measurement you take to get it set. There's a clamp I showed earlier that allows you to move your needle bar back and forth, as well as centering the bar with the feed dogs which I think I showed earlier. You have to do this adjustment with the stitch length set on zero. I'm guessing you'll be moving both your needle bar and feed dogs towards the front of the machine in order to get the measurement you need so when you set your stitch length where you want it, it will clear.

Regards, Eric

[gottaknow]

I edited your pic again Tom to correct my poor photoshop. You'll see that thread inside the guide now. I don't want to throw someone else off. I also show that it's ok to use only two hole going into your tension disks. Sometimes with stiff thread, you create too much back tension with too many guide holes and it doesn't allow you to adjust your tension the way you want. Almost every manual I've ever read will instruct you to set your needle and bobbin tension just tight enough to set a balanced stitch. If you start too tight, you've no where to go to pull up your stitches correctly, usually because you can't tighten the bobbin tension tight enough. I always start with my tensions loose and adjust from there.

Regards, Eric

[TSquared]

I am going to try the two hole method. I will let you know if the tension eases up or not. The good thing about this is when we are finished I will have a nice machine that I will be able to keep in service till I get planted! My daughter has already claimed my machine. LOL

[TSquared]

Eric,

I went to the two hole method. Tension is almost as stiff. I loosened the nut until I was on with one thread on the shaft. tension was looser. I tightened the nut till it was flush with the end of the stud. way too tight. the machine will sew but when you want to pull the cloth out the back (after raising the presser foot) I break the needle or the thread. I am posting another photo along with the video I uploaded on youtube.

gotta get up early for work so I am cashing in for the night.

Thanks,

Tom

http://youtu.be/GRWXwgEmHr8

I guess I can't past the youtube link here. I will try again tomorrow night.

[gottaknow]

You can also go through just one hole on the very top vertical thread guide. Make sure there are no wraps anywhere from the cone to the top thread guide. You want your thread coming right off the center of the cone, straight up to the guide hole, then down to the first guide on the top of your machine.

To remove your fabric, turn the handwheel until the takeup lever reaches the top and just begins to descend. Lift your foot all the way to release the tension, pull straight back. If your tension doesn't release, check the adjustment. There's a small pin that runs through the tension post, and releases your tension when your foots lifted.

I can also tell from your still pic that your feed dogs and needle bar are going to have to be adjusted towards what I call the front of the machine, where the operator sits. That should resolve your issue.

Regards, Eric

Edited November 21, 2012 by gottaknow

[TSquared]

I must have gremlins in my house. Last night when I pasted the YouTube link all I saw was a large square with a red x in the corner.

Tonight I will work on adjusting the feed dog and needle bar. I also have to adjust the lift of the foot. This is where my problem is. When I lift the release lever, the foot only comes up maybe a 32nd. I saw a video on you tube where is seemed that the foot should lift 1/4 inch or more.

I also noticed last night that I have a burr at the end of the needle hook. It is not in a position to stone very easily. I also noticed that there is some slop in the shaft side to side. A new bushing or bearing might be in order. Is there an easy way to get the hook out?

[gottaknow]

You can clean up the hook in the machine starting with some 400 and then some 600. Fold a small piece of the emery in half several times and place it under the hook, pulling it towards the point of the hook. Do the same on the top. Do this with the 400 until the burr is gone, then polish a bit with the 600.

The play you're likely feeling is the play in the bobbin basket, not the shaft of the hook. There's a sealed bearing that shaft goes through on the top of the hook saddle. They usually have very little play in them, even on older machines. I posted a video on another thread showing this play on a two needle machine. I'll post it here so you can see if this is where your play is at.

Adjusting the lift of your foot is pretty straight forward and yeah, it's not lifting near enough to activate your tension release.

Regards, Eric

http://youtu.be/KMx2uIrYcSE

[TSquared]

Gee Eric you must get up pretty early! I can't even think straight that early in the morning much less posting video. Thanks for the tip with the emery cloth. I will polish her up tonight.

Thanks,

Tom

[gottaknow]

Factory starts sewing at 7am. I need a few hours of coffee drinking before I walk in the door and start turning screwdrivers.

[dmar836]

So I adjusted the opener, the needle bar again, the tension, and the hook timing in about 3 more settings. Polished the underside of the throat plate as well. Still breaking a loop but only when I am hand feeding the wheel or transitioning back and forth from motor to hand-wheeling slowly. When I felt it tighten a bit I flipped the machine up and watched on two occasions. I see exactly what is happening. The top thread loop is almost formed around the hook body and just before it can slip off the hook into a knot, it pops apart. As it breaks I can just see the needle again penetrating the bottom of the fabric for the next stitch! What is breaking is the prior stitch that has not yet formed a knot underneath.

My question is how can it stitch well when going full bore or even at a controllable steady speed but then when really slow or when fed by hand the stitch hook hasn't eenough time to get fully around before the needle is coming down through the fabric again?

I wonder if it is catching on the back edge of the needle guard or some other slight protrusion only when slow as when faster the thread is whipped around it without snagging? I notice it does "bump" over the bobbin bail slightly when going slow and noticed the same of the needle guard a while back. I just never see it as it happens.

Otherwise It sure is odd that only one stitch in 50 to 150 stitches suddenly appears retarded.

NOw it's getting interesting.

Dave

[gottaknow]

Not unusual. There's a spot on the thread path that's catching as it goes around the hook. Run a finger around the entire thread path. I use 1500 grit paper to polish. Check the little screws that are in various locations on the hook. You're getting closer!

Regards, Eric

[TSquared]

What would we do without you Eric?

[gottaknow]

I have to do something with 33 years of turning screwdrivers.

[TSquared]

Eric,

I got motivated tonight after baking all the pies for tomorrows dinner. I tackled the tension release issue first. It took me a while but I finally figured it out. after adjusting the presser foot the tension release still did not work. I took the mechinism off the machine and found that someone had straightened the release bar so it was not even making contact with the pin. I made several small adjustments to the bar (I didn't want to bend it too far). Photo is attached for those interested. The second thing I tackled was the walking foot. That took me longer to figure out but I figured I couldn't screw it up any worse than it was. The only problem I have with my adjustment is that sometimes when I flip the presser foot release down the presser bar sticks. There is a long copper color bar that is underneath the black bar that has the chain attached to it. It looks like the end of that bar is supposed to be nested into a notch on the presser bar shaft adjuster. i can't seem to get past the spring clip. I don't know if this bar is bent or not. the presser bar lifts with the foot pedal and with the lever on the back of the machine so do I need to worry about it? photo of walking foot attached as well.

tomorrow I will file the hook as you suggested and I will attemp my first project. http://youtu.be/CuqUTLCDQNQ

http://youtu.be/6hSOXNlitnk

Have a great Thanksgiving everyone!!

Tom

[gottaknow]

Nicely done Tom! You'll now be able to remove your material easily by releasing your tension. Your walking foot motion looks great as near as I can tell too. Nice bit of progress, and pies too! Happy Thanksgiving as well!

Regards, Eric

[TSquared]

Thanks! Coming from a master repairman that means a lot. I could not have gotten this far without your help and all the others.

To all on this forum - have a nice thanksgiving. Take the day off and spend time with your loved ones.

Tom

[dmar836]

Well I polished the hook and retarded the timing. My advice to anyone is to check and recheck timing, etc. as there is accumulated slack in everything. On a new or rebuilt machine, maybe not so much.

I did some stitching with one tread breakage but after dropping the needle bar again and retarding the timing a tad it's working.

One issue is that there appears to be a double row of stitching underneath my first project stitch - a leather hat visor. It is the first time I got through it without any thread breaking but there is the occasional extra loose stitch visible on too and a complete "follower" thread underneath the entire length of stitching. Any ideas? It's getting there!

Happy Thanksgiving to all,

Dave

[gottaknow]

When you start sewing, you'll want to hold the threads behind the foot as you begin to sew. You can let go after a few stitches have formed. This keeps your tail threads from getting sewn back into the stitch or making a mess. It sounds like you're really close.

Regards, Eric