Singer 111W155 Timing/thread Issues

[dmar836]

So got it going fairly good. Did adjust the latch opener. Every once ina while it will still break a thread or develop a birdsnest but I was using kid skin and was just practicing small runs back and forth. Perhaps needle dullness etc. could contribute. Upper thread tension is much lower now as well.

As an aside, is there ever a reason to adjust the pinion gear on the hook? I switched the rounded set screw with the other so I could rotate the groove on the hook shaft(under the pinion gear) and open up a new range of adjustment. Timing might still be a tad off. Could you have the set screws NOT in the hook shaft groove at all? It is so close now the set screw pulls itself into the groove and rotates the pinion as it drops in place. Only turning it 180 would allow free adjustment. I know that would make preload adjustments of the hook difficult without upsetting timing. I have the actual adjustment gear (on the lower shaft) all the way to the left and the hook is still maybe 1/32 to 1/16" ahead.

Dave

[gottaknow]

So got it going fairly good. Did adjust the latch opener. Every once ina while it will still break a thread or develop a birdsnest but I was using kid skin and was just practicing small runs back and forth. Perhaps needle dullness etc. could contribute. Upper thread tension is much lower now as well.

As an aside, is there ever a reason to adjust the pinion gear on the hook? I switched the rounded set screw with the other so I could rotate the groove on the hook shaft(under the pinion gear) and open up a new range of adjustment. Timing might still be a tad off. Could you have the set screws NOT in the hook shaft groove at all? It is so close now the set screw pulls itself into the groove and rotates the pinion as it drops in place. Only turning it 180 would allow free adjustment. I know that would make preload adjustments of the hook difficult without upsetting timing. I have the actual adjustment gear (on the lower shaft) all the way to the left and the hook is still maybe 1/32 to 1/16" ahead.

Dave

If your hook is advanced that little, it shouldn't make much difference. I usually retard the timing on vertical hook machines as a general rule to avoid the random knots from tightly twisted thread. (we use a lot of poly core cotton wrap thread). If your timing is that close, it should sew decent. You're correct in that if you remove your set screws from the grooves, you'll lose the convienence of removing a hook quickly, and it could slip out of time easier. If your bottom timing belt gear has the quick release, that will help. If you want to keep your screw in the groove, you can remove your hook and slide the drive gear out and move it one tooth, re-engage it and replace the hook like you did. That will give you a different range of adjustment. There are plenty of machines that don't have grooves at all on the hook shaft. Brother, Consew, Mitsubishi all have vertical hook machines with no grooves. The Brother does have 3 set screws, and even at that I've had them come loose. Some aftermarket hooks for the 111's and 211's don't bother. There are some obscure and often overlooked things that will break needle thread. 1) Your hook needs to be sharp. I use a very small Arkansas stone running it down the top edge and bottom edge only towards the point of the hook. A dull hook will not enter the loop cleanly and will fray the thread. 2) Remove your throat plate and inspect the grooves where the tab of the basket sits. If the machine has been run with the latch opener not adjusted right, it will cut groove in that notch in the plate. I use 400 and 600 grit paper to keep them smooth. 3) Check your feed dogs for any sharp edges UNDERNEATH. I capped that because you never want to sand down the teeth of your feed dogs. Run a thread down through the needle hole and give it a good "floss" test in line where the thread travels from the hook. 4) Vertical hook machines don't like to chain off the thread out the back of the foot without fabric. If you need to sew off the edge a bit, make sure you keep a little pressure on your material, but best to avoid it. 5) Use a length of thread to "floss" test all your thread guides. It's amazing how sharp they can get. Nylon thread is especially bad. I've seen it over time cut right through those case hardened guides. Best of luck!

Regards, Eric

[dmar836]

Awesome stuff. Thanks for taking the time to list all of that.

I hope Tom's is coming along as we'll.

Dave

[gottaknow]

Sounds like Tom's working on Thanksgiving.

[TSquared]

All I can say is WOW!!!!! Eric, that was a first class explanation. Thanks for taking the extra time to educate some of us.

Tom

[gottaknow]

No problem guys. I've always enjoyed helping others with their machine issues. I can't imagine having a machine that I couldn't use the way I wanted to. I also have issues with those that charge to repair industrial machines that aren't qualified. I've helped a lot of upholstery shops, drape shops, tailors, etc with their machines. A lot has simply been educating them and giving them confidence to handle their problems. A lot of these folks depend on their machines to try and forge a living. I was fortunate to apprentice in a factory with almost 400 operators and was trained by two masters of their craft. One of them is still alive at near 80 and will still come by the factory to bs with me. I still learn from him and I'm in my 50's. I've always told folks the only silly question is the one you don't ask.

Regards, Eric

[dmar836]

Well, know it is appreciated and this info lives on and will undoubtedly help others in the future as these machines resurface.

For me I prefer to see these tools utilized rather than running out to buy the latest plastic covered beast made in China. Good as they may be for a modern factory, there is something about these vintage machines that, who knows, may have been used to assemble flight jackets, military clothing, sails, etc.

the mechanical workings - often visible - are ingenious and like art to me. The parts appear to wear so well that there is no reason not to keep them running.

You mentioned in that video making another with adjustment info. That would sure be a boon to know there is info out there that reinforces the sequence of adjustments as I have seen the order is as important as the adjustment.

Dave

[gottaknow]

Thanks Dave. I'm still using a lot of older machines. A few 50's, a lot of Singers from the 60's, and on up to a new Chinese Juki 2 needle that I estimate will last 5 years instead of being ageless. Factories will continue to use the old machines because they are near bullet proof and completely rebuildable.

Edited November 20, 2012 by gottaknow

[dmar836]

Eric, What are your thoughts on replacement parts for these older machines? My feed dog and throat plate are certainly worn and the underside of the plate is smooth but kinda chewed looking(as you suggested might be the case). It all works but I want to tighten it all up a bit. I fear the plentiful inexpensive parts out there are junk that either have poor tolerances and don't fit well or will wear out quickly. Are the Simanco parts unobtanium or are the cheap replacement parts okay?

Dave

[gottaknow]

You're usually ok with plates and dogs, but things like hooks I get original. Seiko hooks are good, but nothing from China. With things like plates and dogs, I inspect each part and usually do some hand polishing. The thread path has to be smooth.

Regards, Eric