Newbie, Some Questions To Ask.

[nick67]

Hi, I'm Nick from Malaysia, Recently been interested in picking up leather crafting as a hobby.

After searching for a long time, I finally found a craft store which sells leather crafting items (there aren't many around and this is the only supplier I manage to find). I went there to pick up some basic leather working tools but I think I might be cheated.

Leather

The store owner (who claims to be a leather crafter in his younger days) suggested I buy squares of leather instead of a whole cut to get some practice on. Then, he brings me a bag of scraps which he says will be worth every penny of mine. When I got home, I realized the leather squares(about 2mm) which I bought were very stiff and feels very dry. The flesh side is quite fuzzy and the whole thing feels like a cardboard. I have never touched an unfinished leather before so I am not sure if this leather is still usable. Are leathers supposed to be stiff and very dry to the touch? If not, is there anything I could do to save it?

On to the bag of scraps, all the pieces were bent, creased badly and dusty, I tried cleaning with a damp cloth but it seems the top layer of the grain came off in flakes and the cloth picked up the brown color of the hide. Is this normal?

Overstitch wheel

I picked up an overstitch wheel and asked for 6/7 spi. When I got home and tried it out, I actually counted 11 spi. The stitching marks were so close to each other! Is 11spi usable for leather crafting?

Needles

I am aware that leather craft needles are blunt. But the ones I got was sharp to the feel (They didn't have the blunt ones). Could this still be used for stitching?

Awl

I asked for a diamond awl to make the stitching holes, but the store owner told me to use a "stitching punch" instead. It's round and quite small, but if paired with the 11spi overstitch wheel, the spacing between each stitch is almost gone.

I'd love to get some feedback from the LW community on the above issues, and any suggestions as to what improvements I could make. I feel so upset as I was looking forward to get into this hobby, but being cheated makes me feel like quitting before I even started.

[shtoink]

To really give a good assessment, I think that pictures would be very helpful in this case.

Aside from that, it doesn't sound like you were given the wrong tools and possibly the wrong leather. I would not have spent any money until after my questions were answered on subject. 11 SPI seems wrong, but it can depend on what you are trying to do. You might be able to get away with that many stitches per inch on some thinner leather, but certainly not with the thicker stuff/

On the needles, some can be sharps and others not. I have some that look like really thick sewing needles and others that look flat. If you are pulling a thick thread through the leather, the needle type would be more appropriate and if you are using lace, then you need a different type.

As far as the leather goes, I can't say much without some pictures. From your description, though, it doesn't sound good. Scrap is good for practice, but you'll eventually want to make something bigger than those scrap pieces can provide. Also, you generate your own scrap pieces when you start cutting out your patterns.

It might be worthwhile to see how much shipping would be from some online dealers to where you are. That way you can go by the recommendations from those in here or from a reputable dealer and not have to worry about being swindled by some crazy shop owner.

There are some good threads in here on what tools are good for getting started. It'll take a little bit of searching and reading, but it'll be free, which is a whole lot cheaper than getting the wrong stuff because you just don't know yet. There are even some articles on making your own tools or decent substitutes until such time that a proper one can be obtained. I personally got lucky and inherited the majority of my tools from my grandfather, however there are quite a few in that mix that I have not even used yet because the need has never presented itself. Basically, there are plenty of tools that can be skipped until they are actually needed depending on the projects you want to do.

The point I am trying to get at is that you can build on your tool collection slowly, as you need them, and more reading through the topics in here on that subject can help you narrow that list down. The topic of leather types can get quite complicated, too. But they all boil down to some basic types. The good news, all that information is in here and it just takes some searching and reading.

I just hope that I was enough help and that you don't give up on this. It can be very discouraging to be mislead by someone like that and I know all too well how it feels.

[mlapaglia]

5,6,7 are the normal SPI for most but not all things.

The leather sounds like garbage but a picture would help. It should not flake off or turn the cloth brown.

Needles are normally blunt. Try not to get the ones with the large eyes from Tandy. If you can find them start with a #0 Harness needle. Thats a good size to start with. You may later go to a #1 or #2. Larger number smaller needle diameter.

The punches do not work as well for most people but some people love them. A diamond all is a good/better way to go if you want to learn the old ways. Some people, not me, will drill the holes out.

It sounds like you got the wrong stuff.

[nick67]

Managed to get some snaps of the items, but not the best quality as I used my handphone.

The flesh side of the leather square

The grain side

The side

As mentioned, the above square is stiff and dry like a cardboard.

My rag after wiping off the leather (it was white before)

The stitching wheel

The stitching punch and needle

Some piece of scrap, they're all like this and some even has mould on them.

Another question I have in mind is the thread. I realized that some of them are round and some of them flat. Are there any pros and cons to either?

Thank you all for taking the time to reply me.

[TwinOaks]

Welcome to Leatherworker.net!

Hope this isn't offensive to you, but the guy telling you what stuff to get is an idiot.

Now that we've established that, stop reading and go separate the moldy leather (and anything it's been in contact with) from any of the 'good' leather. We'll deal with the mold later, but get it out of whatever place you're using to work on leather. If it was in a bag, take everything that was in the bag with it. Mold is bad.

Now....it's hard to see from the pictures, but does the 'grain' side of the leather have a smooth texture to it? I ask because in the picture, it almost looks like a split - that's what's left over after splitting down full thickness hide. The grain side should be smooth....like skin.

From the pic of the flesh side, it LOOKS like veg-tan. There's several things you can do to smooth down the fuzzies, including shaving, skiving, pasting, or slicking. Inconvenient, but not a deal breaker.

The overstitch wheel is for very fine sewing. For the thickness you've got, it'll be nearly useless.

That's not a stitching punch, it's a hole punch. You'll need to get or make an awl.....or if you want a real stitching punch, look here http://www.tandyleat...s/88044-04.aspx There are several sizes available and you can find them on the same site. You want one with a diamond shaped cross section, so that the hole will close up around the stitching. If you don't have a source for high quality steel (or tools, or skills to forge one) you can make an awl out of a spoke (bicycle wheel) and just file it down for the rough shape, then polish on stones.

You can still sew with a pointy needle, you just have to be more careful when sewing. The reason to use a blunt needle is so that the needle doesn't penetrate any other threads in the hole (like when saddle stitching), and will instead deflect off of it and go to the side. Careful stitching can avoid the problem by paying attention to where the needle point is headed.

After seeing the last picture, I'm actually wondering if this is whole leather at all. It looks like a glazed split - it's where a split has a top layer of vinyl or other man-made product....even 'man made leather'*....had been stuck to the top of the split. If this IS the case, it will be very hard to do any tooling/carving.

** Some manufacturers will use what is essentially leather 'dust' and mix it with a binder (glue). Then they take the stuff and apply it to a split, and feed it through rollers which press it into the split, AND also add a texture/gloss to the "grain" side. I've NEVER seen good vegtan leather have the grain side peel off of it.

In summary, you've picked up a few tools that could be useful in due time....but for the most part, what you've purchased from this person is the information that he is NOT the person you need to deal with for leather goods

.ETA....Almost forgot about the moldy leather - IF...IF...IF it is JUST surface mold, then you can clean it with white vinegar. If it has grown through the leather, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth to try and kill it. If you had a whole hide with that problem, then you might be better off trying to clean it, but with just what you have there.....get rid of it. Mold can spread to other leather items, and more importantly, certain molds can cause health problems.

[Sylvia]

Hi Nick:

Tooling leather is rather stiff and dry. It needs to be wet down, then allowed to return to it's natural color (This is called casing leather) Before you attempt to tool the leather. The flesh side is sometimes rough on poor quality leathers but you can use some sand paper to sand the "fuzz" away.

The other pieces of leather look like they are chrome tanned stuff. That material is ok for projects that you do not want to tool or emboss.

You definitely got a bag of random scrap leather which is ok if you aren't committed to tooling yet. They aren't the best pieces in the world but should allow you to practice without too much expense. If the brown leather was dyed... yes some rub off is normal if the "manufacturer" didn't do the necessary buffing to remove excess dye stuff.

Your "stitching punch" is interesting. It is hard to determine from the picture, but I would think that your punch is more likely to be a rivet punch. I personally would not use that but rather get a good awl. The stitching wheel is rather toothy but I think it could still be used if You choose to punch every other hole. That should work for you until you can come up with a better solution.

Being that you are located where things are difficult to get, you are likely to find that you'll be making a lot of your own tools or improvising with things you find along the way. That is OK! Early leather craftsmen did the same thing... and their efforts became tools we use today. Gather up some large nails, Screw drivers, bolts,... and some good metal files etc. You'll have a set of tools in no time with a little effort.

[JLSleather]

I think you call this one a [hard] lesson learned. The stuff he sold you was 1.) not what you asked for, and 2.) not acceptable even for what he claimed it was.

Twin Oaks has some good information for you, so I won't repeat all of that. Best advice, get some decent tooling leather - and leave that guy out of your craft. If the pictures are close to what you are actually seeing, that guy should have paid YOU for taking out his trash.

For anyone wishing to learn the craft, either as a hobby or an enterprise, do not listen to those who tell you this rough stuff is "good for practice". Leather crafting requires practice, but bad practice is worse than none.

[nick67]

Welcome to Leatherworker.net!

Hope this isn't offensive to you, but the guy telling you what stuff to get is an idiot.

Now that we've established that, stop reading and go separate the moldy leather (and anything it's been in contact with) from any of the 'good' leather. We'll deal with the mold later, but get it out of whatever place you're using to work on leather. If it was in a bag, take everything that was in the bag with it. Mold is bad.

Now....it's hard to see from the pictures, but does the 'grain' side of the leather have a smooth texture to it? I ask because in the picture, it almost looks like a split - that's what's left over after splitting down full thickness hide. The grain side should be smooth....like skin.

From the pic of the flesh side, it LOOKS like veg-tan. There's several things you can do to smooth down the fuzzies, including shaving, skiving, pasting, or slicking. Inconvenient, but not a deal breaker.

The overstitch wheel is for very fine sewing. For the thickness you've got, it'll be nearly useless.

That's not a stitching punch, it's a hole punch. You'll need to get or make an awl.....or if you want a real stitching punch, look here http://www.tandyleat...s/88044-04.aspx There are several sizes available and you can find them on the same site. You want one with a diamond shaped cross section, so that the hole will close up around the stitching. If you don't have a source for high quality steel (or tools, or skills to forge one) you can make an awl out of a spoke (bicycle wheel) and just file it down for the rough shape, then polish on stones.

You can still sew with a pointy needle, you just have to be more careful when sewing. The reason to use a blunt needle is so that the needle doesn't penetrate any other threads in the hole (like when saddle stitching), and will instead deflect off of it and go to the side. Careful stitching can avoid the problem by paying attention to where the needle point is headed.

After seeing the last picture, I'm actually wondering if this is whole leather at all. It looks like a glazed split - it's where a split has a top layer of vinyl or other man-made product....even 'man made leather'*....had been stuck to the top of the split. If this IS the case, it will be very hard to do any tooling/carving.

** Some manufacturers will use what is essentially leather 'dust' and mix it with a binder (glue). Then they take the stuff and apply it to a split, and feed it through rollers which press it into the split, AND also add a texture/gloss to the "grain" side. I've NEVER seen good vegtan leather have the grain side peel off of it.

In summary, you've picked up a few tools that could be useful in due time....but for the most part, what you've purchased from this person is the information that he is NOT the person you need to deal with for leather goods

.ETA....Almost forgot about the moldy leather - IF...IF...IF it is JUST surface mold, then you can clean it with white vinegar. If it has grown through the leather, it's going to be more trouble than it's worth to try and kill it. If you had a whole hide with that problem, then you might be better off trying to clean it, but with just what you have there.....get rid of it. Mold can spread to other leather items, and more importantly, certain molds can cause health problems.

I really appreciate you taking your time explaining things to me. I guess I have to throw away most of the scraps I bought. It looks like it's been in storage for a very very long time. Thanks for the tip on making my own awl. I will try that out soon!

Hi Nick:

Tooling leather is rather stiff and dry. It needs to be wet down, then allowed to return to it's natural color (This is called casing leather) Before you attempt to tool the leather. The flesh side is sometimes rough on poor quality leathers but you can use some sand paper to sand the "fuzz" away.

The other pieces of leather look like they are chrome tanned stuff. That material is ok for projects that you do not want to tool or emboss.

You definitely got a bag of random scrap leather which is ok if you aren't committed to tooling yet. They aren't the best pieces in the world but should allow you to practice without too much expense. If the brown leather was dyed... yes some rub off is normal if the "manufacturer" didn't do the necessary buffing to remove excess dye stuff.

Your "stitching punch" is interesting. It is hard to determine from the picture, but I would think that your punch is more likely to be a rivet punch. I personally would not use that but rather get a good awl. The stitching wheel is rather toothy but I think it could still be used if You choose to punch every other hole. That should work for you until you can come up with a better solution.

Being that you are located where things are difficult to get, you are likely to find that you'll be making a lot of your own tools or improvising with things you find along the way. That is OK! Early leather craftsmen did the same thing... and their efforts became tools we use today. Gather up some large nails, Screw drivers, bolts,... and some good metal files etc. You'll have a set of tools in no time with a little effort.

Hey there thanks for your reply! Yeah, I guess I will try my hands at making my own tools for now. The craft shop I went to is not well stocked with proper tools for leather working. There's a hardware shop very near to where I am. Now I just got to search for DIY tools tutorials.

Edited December 22, 2012 by nick67

[nick67]

I think you call this one a [hard] lesson learned. The stuff he sold you was 1.) not what you asked for, and 2.) not acceptable even for what he claimed it was.

Twin Oaks has some good information for you, so I won't repeat all of that. Best advice, get some decent tooling leather - and leave that guy out of your craft. If the pictures are close to what you are actually seeing, that guy should have paid YOU for taking out his trash.

For anyone wishing to learn the craft, either as a hobby or an enterprise, do not listen to those who tell you this rough stuff is "good for practice". Leather crafting requires practice, but bad practice is worse than none.

When I got home and opened up my purchase, I knew right away that he sold me some rubbish. Just touching the leather gives me the feeling that it is of bad quality. Some of the pieces actually stained my hands and some flakes just keep rubbing off.

I just need to find a way to make my own diamond awl.

[Sylvia]

Nick: I search google books a lot for "how to info." I tend to look for free books, from the 1800s to early 1900s. Popular mechanics is a fun one to delve into as is "The Craftsman." The book located at this link ( https://play.google.com/books/reader?id=1FMrAAAAMAAJ&printsec=frontcover&output=reader&authuser=0&hl=en&pg=GBS.PA49 ) .... has a very interesting article on "THE CALIFORNIAN ART OF STAMPING AND EMBOSSING LEATHER. BY ARTHUR INKERS- LEY" It's on page 48.

[nick67]

Nick: I search google books a lot for "how to info." I tend to look for free books, from the 1800s to early 1900s. Popular mechanics is a fun one to delve into as is "The Craftsman." The book located at this link ( https://play.google....=en&pg=GBS.PA49 ) .... has a very interesting article on "THE CALIFORNIAN ART OF STAMPING AND EMBOSSING LEATHER. BY ARTHUR INKERS- LEY" It's on page 48.

Thanks! I'll definitely check out those magazines!