Tippmann Boss Problems

[billymac814]

Could some of you other Boss users post pictures if your standard pressure foot, I'd like to see how they come from Tippmann.

[mlapaglia]

purchased 29/12/11.

Hope this helps

[usmc0341]

That's what mine looks like mlapaglia. Have you noticed your needle guide hitting your prseer foot at all?

And thanks Billy for explaining what all you fixed, you obviously described it better then I could!

[mlapaglia]

I have never had an issue with the needle hitting the pressure foot. Glad yours is working now

[billymac814]

That is exactly what his looked like. Mine was much more refined looking and smoother but it had beveled edges in the center which funneled the needle guide down in. I don't know whether or not it came from the factory that way or not but I really think it did because I don't think the guy I bought mine from was the type to do that and he hardly used it, it was basically brand new when I got it.

I should have tried his foot on mine to see if it hit with that foot but I didn't think about it at the time.

The slight bevel did the trick though and instead of it hanging up on the foot it slid right down in between.

I think you could use a foot from a Singer 111w on the Boss, I think you might have to drill a hole in it though but I can't remember.

[trekster]

My presser foot looks just like the one pictured by mlapaglia.

I never really noticed my needle foot hitting one of the inside edges of the presser foot, but I do know that it is NOT centered in the space. Obviously it has to do with the dimensional tolerances between both the presser foot alignment and the needle bar. My machine has one of the "older" version needle bar assemblies. You can tell if it is an older version, if it does NOT come apart (needle foot removal) as is shown in the Tippman video. However, the needle bar assemblies are interchangeable, so if you have an older one and it needs replacement, the newer one will fit no problem.

However, on the older cast iron machines, the horizontal tension spring for the needle bar is completely different from the tension assembly on the aluminum casting machines, so I'm guessing that needle bar would not be interchangeable with the later ones.

[almac]

are these problems common with the new tippman boss?

i am considering buying one direct from tippman, but if these are common problems, i don't want to risk having to return my new machine for repairs, as shipping from canada is quite expensive...

i prefer to be able to use a NEW machine, than to have to return it to the manufacturer shortly after receiving it.

[billymac814]

I used mine for several years with no major issues and most of my issues in the beginning were user error. They seem to be a machine that you either love or hate. I pretty much loved mine, not as much as I love the Cowboy but it served me well and I've stitched a lot of holsters on it.

I purchased mine used and the one in this discussion was purchased used. I do know of another guy who had some issues with his new one but I would hope that that's not the norm. Keep in mind too that its usually the problems that you hear about or read on line, for every issue you read about there's probably 40 or 50 satisfied people who have no reason to take that to the forum. Of course those figures are entirely made up it could be higher or lower.

In my opinion I would probably only consider buying one used or at least get one on sale. Otherwise at 1500.00(plus a little more on some extra bobbins and feet) I'd spend a few hundred more and try to get into a used or even new 441 clone. The Boss is a great machine and is very capable and compared to handsewing its pretty fast but the 441 clones are very nice to use and they are a little more versatile.

[usmc0341]

Well since Friday I have been practicing on scrap and was happy for the most part although on the back side I either had the bobbin thread not being pulled in or the needle thread was being pulled through. It seemed to be better on the heavier leather so I decided to stitch my first holster tonight. Got it all glued up and put I in the machine. The first stitch seemed to no want to go in for some reason and when I added more pressure my f*#•€*£ needle snapped off and with it broke my needle guide! I have no idea what the issue is but I am beyond pissed right now and my level of frustration is beyond words. I guess I'll order a new needle guide and put this thing up for sale. I don't know how to get this thing to work for me.

[trekster]

Sorry to hear of your frustrating experiences. I know it can be very maddening, especially when you break something. Other than extremely hard, dry leather, or something outside the maximum thickness - there should be few reasons for breaking the needle and needle foot (guide). I can think of one instance that might do it, but it doesn't happen all that often.

If... after the needle just enters the top thickness of leather, you inadvertantly push, pull or put a little sideways pressure on the material - you can cause the needle to bend enough that when it plunges through bottom of the material it will be misalighned enough where the point will actually hit the bobbin shuttle (or the needle plate), and of course if you continue applying force through the operating handle; you can snap off the needle. The clearance between the needle point and the bobbin shuttle is not very much, so it does not take a lot of sideways pressure on the needle to make it contact the shuttle ring as it enters the shuttle area.

Not saying that is why it broke, but it is one thing that might have happened without you knowing what caused it.

Maybe someone else will comment also.

Edited March 6, 2013 by trekster

[usmc0341]

It didn't even make it through the leather to the shuttle. I'm using 8/9 oz Herman oak leather that isn't dry or anything. I don't know what the issue is but I'm so pissed with the whole thing right now. I don't know if I should fix this and keep working at it or try to get a new machine. I'm just afraid if I can't work this simple machine there is no way I could work an electric one.

[trekster]

I'm sure you probably had a brand new "sharp" needle, so if it didn't make it through the leather, it almost sounds to me like the point may have contacted the needle plate. If it hit the plate, it would definitely not have passed into the shuttle area. The screw holes that hold on the needle plate are sloted so the slot in the needle plate can be aligned exactly in the middle of where the needle goes through. But if you did a bunch of practice stitches, I would think you would have noticed if the slot wasn't aligned very well.

[mncarpenter]

sorry- hit send twice

Edited March 6, 2013 by mncarpenter

[usmc0341]

  On 3/6/2013 at 2:30 AM, trekster said:

I'm sure you probably had a brand new "sharp" needle, so if it didn't make it through the leather, it almost sounds to me like the point may have contacted the needle plate. If it hit the plate, it would definitely not have passed into the shuttle area. The screw holes that hold on the needle plate are sloted so the slot in the needle plate can be aligned exactly in the middle of where the needle goes through. But if you did a bunch of practice stitches, I would think you would have noticed if the slot wasn't aligned very well.

I did have a newer needle so it is a possibilty that it hit the needle plate. On top of breaking the needle bar my handle will not stay in the up position so I'm not sure if something else broke or what. I don't understand why this thing is kicking my ass, it is a simple machine! I'm not sure what to do with it. I really liked Billy's Cowboy 4500 but I don't think I can justify that much machine for what I do, and like I said before if I can't get this Boss to run right I think hand stitching may be my destiny!

[trekster]

Well, the electric machines are very enticing, but I just don't do that much quantity that I can justify the cost. Plus, don't forget they come with their own "learning curve" and it is probably quite a bit different from using (and getting used to) a Boss.

Let your machine rest awhile, call Ben @ Tippmann in the morning and tell him what happened. He has seen (and heard of) just about any problem you can think of - and he usually has a pretty good solution. Get the parts ordered, and give it another try. Then if you still ain't happy with it, put it on Craigslist or eBay. I've seen the Boss machines on eBay go for darn near new price, so you shouldn't take too much of a beating on it.

BTW, if the operating handle is not acting right, I suspect you probably sheared off some teeth on the rack gear, or perhaps the round gear that mates up to the rack gear. Take the back cover off, and you should be able to tell right away.

Edited March 6, 2013 by trekster

[billymac814]

Brian,

I'm sorry to hear your still having problems with it, especially after it was working pretty good. I can only think of one time I ever broke a needle on mine and that was stitching a sheath that was almost an inch thick so I was exceeding its capabilities and what happened was basically exactly as Trekster described.

Here would be my suggestion given your current situation. I believe your Boss may have been used pretty hard, there definitely seemed to be a lot more play in everything compared to mine, that could have been the reason your needle guide was hitting the foot and the beveled foot may have been more of a bandaid than a fix. I would call Tippman and send your machine in for a rebuild. I believe (but I'm not 100% sure) that they do a complete rebuild for something like 200 bucks, you'd still be doing pretty good with what you have invested and should you still decide to sell it the rebuild will no doubt make it worth more when you go to sell it. Then when you get it back you should be able to rule out any machine issues and concentrate on user errors. Its very frustrating when you don't know if its your fault or the machines fault, I've been down that road many times with just about every machine I own. It can still happen on a new or rebuilt one but its far less likely.

I'd at least call them up and explain the situation, they should be more than willing to help get it straightened out.

[usmc0341]

I like that idea Billy. I will call them this morning and inquire about the rebuild because I wouldn't sell it not knowing whats wrong with it anyway. As far as what I was sewing when the needle broke, it was just a holster built with 8/9 ounce Herman oak so I definitely wasn't exceeding the capabilities. I'm not sure what's going on with it, but I think I will send it back for the rebuild and if when I get it back I still can't get it to work I'll sell it and get something else. I guess I'll be handstitching for a while longer!

[usmc0341]

I just got off the phone with Ben at Tippmann and I'm sending it in to have him look at it. I will update here when I get it back. Thanks for all of the help.

[usmc0341]

Oh and the handle not staying in the up position is because the needle is out, so I didn't mess up any of the gears which is a relief!

[trekster]

Sending it back to Tippmann is probably the best thing you can do right now. I have heard of at least two different owners who did the same thing, and both were extremely pleased with the operation of their machines once they got them back. Glad to hear you didn't damage any of the gearing.

[usmc0341]

Just a quick update. My Boss is on its way back already. Ben was awesome to deal with and the turn around time was quick. He fixed the timing and replaced a gear which he said the previous owner must have replaced incorrectly. So it sounds like those were the only issues and I am anxious to get rolling with this thing.

[wijjit]

I have been the "proud" owner of a Boss for about 9 months now. I have been through the DVD MANY times, followed the directions. Adjusted the foot tension from removing the adjuster to down to the point of running out of threads. Just about wore out the adjustment screw on the bobbin adjustment, same with top thread adjustment. It will sew maybe 100 stitches then break the top thread on the up stroke. Rethread the machine, might do 10 stitches, might do 200, then preak the thread again. Constant change in the stitch length. Do 10 stitches and then the bobbin thread is on the top. do another 10 and the top thread is on the bottom. I would not recomend this machine to anyone. As soon as budget permits it is going on ebay, and the money from that sale will go on a good machine. Not impressed, I think it is a POS. But just my opinion.

[trekster]

  On 3/16/2013 at 2:19 PM, wijjit said:

I have been the "proud" owner of a Boss for about 9 months now. I have been through the DVD MANY times, followed the directions. Adjusted the foot tension from removing the adjuster to down to the point of running out of threads. Just about wore out the adjustment screw on the bobbin adjustment, same with top thread adjustment. It will sew maybe 100 stitches then break the top thread on the up stroke. Rethread the machine, might do 10 stitches, might do 200, then preak the thread again. Constant change in the stitch length. Do 10 stitches and then the bobbin thread is on the top. do another 10 and the top thread is on the bottom. I would not recomend this machine to anyone. As soon as budget permits it is going on ebay, and the money from that sale will go on a good machine. Not impressed, I think it is a POS. But just my opinion.

Yup, I agree, operating the Tippmann Boss can be a very frustrating experience. I think generally the erratic operation of the Boss stems from a couple of problems; both of which must be overcome before an operator can obtain consistent results.

Personally, (IMHO) I think both problems arise from a lack of proper information (from the manufacturer) and the level of expectations from the typical user.

IMO, the Boss has a significant "learning curve". That is, time spent by a new operator experimenting with a "significant" number of different machine settings, bobbin tensions, thread tensions, material feed methods, timing adjustments, etc. to name a few of the main ones (and there are others). Not every new operator has the desire or the time and patience to traverse this "learning curve". Certainly, the manual does not explain this fact - but they "hint" at it by saying you should spend a little time practicing on scrap leather before doing a real project. Which leads to the other problem... "level of expectations" .....

Most of us, myself included, buy into a Tippmann Boss because we are tired of hand stitching and yet do not have the level of work and/or financial resources to invest in a Cowboy 4500 (or even a 2500) - which is so often recommended here on this forum. Sure, having one of those would be nice, but a lot of us just cannot justify the expenditure for the type and quantity of work we are doing.

So, many of us hear the siren call of a Tippmann Boss, buy a used one off of Craigslist or eBay (for something less than retail) and figure our days of hand stitching are gone forever. That is, our level of expectations is; we figure we will spend a little time practicing and then suddenly begin knocking out our projects in a tenth of the time we spent hand-stitching, and have results that look just like we have been used to prior to getting the Boss.

There are three glaring problems with that thinking; one, the machine we buy used, could have any number of things wrong with it, which we don't know at the outset, but which could render the machine totally incapable of producing acceptable results (believe me, I speak from experience). Not only that, but I've heard of people getting a NEW machine that contained an out-of-tolerance part, which prevented it from "ever" producing acceptable results. The second problem is, (IMO) a little time practicing could mean a WHOLE lot more expermentation, trial and error, than we ever imagined. And third (again IMO) NO mechanical method of producing a lock-stich in leather, can ever exactly resemble the looks of hand stitching.

Still, I do believe a properly adjusted Boss, in the hands of an operator that has gone through the "learning curve", will produce a very acceptable looking lock-stitch in a variety of different materials and projects.

However, is the Tippmann Boss "the" machine for everyone wanting to give their fingers a rest from hand-stitching? No, I don't think it is -- for the reasons I iterated above.

Fortunately, there still seems to be a significant number of folks who hear the siren call of the Boss, and hence the used machines on eBay are usually sold for not much less than retail cost, and therefore a disgruntled user may unload it without losing a significant amount of their initial investment.

Chalk it up to experience and education....

[trekster]

  On 3/15/2013 at 8:23 PM, usmc0341 said:

Just a quick update. My Boss is on its way back already. Ben was awesome to deal with and the turn around time was quick. He fixed the timing and replaced a gear which he said the previous owner must have replaced incorrectly. So it sounds like those were the only issues and I am anxious to get rolling with this thing.

Keep us posted. I'll be interested in hearing of your experiences with the machine as it comes back from a "factory tuneup".

[mncarpenter]

I had similar issues as wijjit. Watch your needle as it descends, see if it hits the hook /shuttle assembly. Make sure you have it timed as described in the instruction book and videos.

Some Boss were machined wrong, the shoulder the shuttle spacer rides against is not deep enough and causes the needle to rub the shuttle , fraying and breaking thread and causing timing nightmares.. I know, I have one, and Tipmann( I think it was Ben) confirmed, and even told me he had built a jig for his drill press that would allow him to machine the shoulder to the correct depth. So apparently not an uncommon issue. Wanted something like 75.00 and shipping both ways to fix it. So probably around 125.00 to fix including the shipping both ways.I was irritated that they would charge me for what seems on the surface to be a factory QC issue. I ordered a couple new shuttle spacers and ground one thinner, worked like a charm.

Edited March 17, 2013 by mncarpenter