interweaves

[rawhide1]

Hello all

I'm working on a pair of roping reins for my daughter and the long pineapple knot I'm using to cover the turnbacks will have a o/u 3 or 4 interweave when I'm done. Well i've started on the o/u 3 interweave. When I started I followed the one to left but when I get to the top of the knot if I go under two when I continue down and make my turn under four I wind up at my standing end. So when I make my turn at the top should I go under four or more. So I was wondering if somebody could tell me how many to turn back under on a o/u three and a o/u four interweave when ya get to the bottom and top of the knot. I'm having a huge brain fart and can't remember the sequence.

Thanks in advance for any help'

Mike

[Shelly]

I would suggest you post a few pix of the knot, and where you are running into a problem... if the foundation and first pass (O/U two) is correct, you should be following the string on the left when going up, and the string to the working end's right when going down, and once the pattern develops, you will notice that it will build from an o/u two pattern to a o/u 3, and so on, each time you finish an additional IW. Also notice as you increase this knot from o/u 2, that you will be building up from the base, meaning that it will give the impression that the base strings stack each progressive IW on the last from the bottom up, but at the top, the IW always goes all the way to the top foundation strands, going under a cross and splitting a pair, (essentially, under 3).

When you start the third IW, I will usually start it in a different place from the standing end, so that I don't end up with a bulge in that spot from additional strands starting/ending in the same place. You can go under 4 to start, at the base of the knot, being sure that it will be passing at the base of the last row. still following the left string up, and the right string to the bottom after making the turn at the top...

Pix really help me to see where a problem is, I'm a pretty 'visual' learner myself, so easiest for me to teach that way, too...do you have any of Gail Hought's books?? Her books are some of the 'must have' books that I refer anyone that asks me where they can get started learning the art of braiding...easier to follow her than Bruce Grant's Encyclopedia, and I taught myself how to braid in the mid '70's from his books...cutting my own roo and rawhide happened pretty quick as well, as the lace available in the Tandy stores left a lot to be desired in the end result for me...same as strapwork - started making my own headstalls when I couldn't find 'off the rack' headstalls made well enough to suit me...

Edited August 23, 2008 by Shelly

[rawhide1]

Shelly

I'm going to attempt to post some pictures. I took a black marker to the string I'm working with hopefully making it easier to follow.

[rawhide1]

Here's two more

I can't figure out why I'm coming out at my starting point. I don't know if ya can see it but in one of the eight pictures after I went over three I had to go under four. And I don't think that is right.

Mike

Edited August 23, 2008 by rawhide1

[Shelly]

This looks like a six bight knot, but can't be totally sure by the pix - I can see that you aren't going all the way to the bottom on the IW, and that's fine, as it should work the same, like you are doing it - the problem I am seeing is that when you are going up from the base, you are fine, following the left strand to the top, then under the cross, and splitting any pair there, which would have you basically going under 3...then, you have the mistake - you are coming down toward the base of the knot you are following the left string again - going down toward the base you should be following the path of the string to the right of your working end, and splitting any pairs that you've made on the previous passes going up - you will be splitting pairs you are making as you go down when you are going up again, and so on, around until you work your way back to the beginning of the IW...I might suggest a different colored string here, as it makes it easier to see when you are trying to 'see' the pattern...looks like it will make a nice button when it's done!

[Shelly]

If this is the third IW, it should be building up to an O/U three as you build and split pairs - I think if you back that string out, all the way to the beginning, start over with the entire string colored, to see it better, and go up following the string on it's left, and down following the string on it's right - you will find that it will work better - you will go under 4 at the bottom, to go up, but do be sure that you are coming out at that juncture next to the string you are following up (working end to it's right, both in the same spot, following this string up with it on the left of the working string - as you will split that pair when you come down to it following the string on the working end's right on the way down...make sense??)

[rawhide1]

Shelly

Thank You for your replies and help. I'll have to try your suggestions this evening when I get time. And I think I will use a black roo string for this interweave so I can track the pattern better as you stated. It is a six bight knot. Once again Thank You

Mike

[Alan Bell]

Hey Mike, if you look at your second pic there is a pair that should have been split. Also, It is hard to tell but it looks like a 6 bight knot with an X=4 so basically you should have 24 rows of lines going up counting the "v" or at least the up leg of the "v" from bottom to top. When you go to the first interweave you are making an O2 U2 pattern and the ends are U3. The next level of interweave should be O3 U3 with the ends being U4 regardless of wether you are going all the way from top to bottom. The section you are "building" should be built in the same manner with the same formula of adding 1 to the pattern and 1 to the cross for each level of interweave. Make sure you are splitting pairs when you come to them. Seeing as this does not appear to be the first time you've come down the rows then you've made an error somewhere between the first and second pass. Make sure you are going up and down the same number so if you go O U O going up you should go O U O going down (this is leaving out the crosses at each end) and not O U O U O or some variation that adds one more row to the equation. From what I can tell you are basically one pass to the right of where you should be and you shoul be going down the row 3 strings to the right shich would put you coming to the pair that the start makes at the top of the pair. It also looks like you are too lose at the top and your interweaves are too far down the sides of the knot to fill in the gap at the top. This happens to me a lot. I REPEAT "A LOT" so don't feel too bad. just keep trying to feed those interweaves up higher realizing that you can braid the knot a little loose if you know that your next 3 interweaves are going to tighten everything up once they go on.

Vaya con Dios, Alan Bell

[rawhide1]

Alan, Shelly

I hate to keep bothering y'all. Maybe I just need to be hit in the head with a hammer. When I start my interweave I follow the one to the left I go up o3u3o3u3o3u3o3u2 making the turn. Then down following the one to the right o3u3o3u3o4u3o3u4making the turn. Going back up following the one to the left o3u3etc... Now when I get to the top I should be going o3u3 making the turn and splitting a pair since this is my second pass. But I don't the pair from my first pass is on the other side. I've studied this wreck for hrs and the only answer I can come up with is on my first pass when I get to the top is to go under six which sounds absurd. I'm starting to feel dumber than a box of rocks. Maybe if someone had a picture they could post that would help. Once again THANKS for any help y'all can offer.

Mike

[Shelly]

Alan may have to field this one - I'm trying to get a couple saddles finished, so won't have time to do an example until later in the week...if you're patient, I can braid the knot for you, and use different colors to show you in pix...would do it similar to what you are trying to get done...no time available for now...both saddles are floral, and got to go!