Lanyard Help Requested, Please...

[TXAG]

Howdy!

I've been a member for a while, but mostly read...I learn more by reading than posting.

I am in the National Guard and received a very nice compass for my promotion to Sergeant and wanted to learn how to make a lanyard for it. So I started reading threads in here and in other places...the more I looked into that, the more intrigued I became with the various knots and types of lanyards -- there is some really beautiful work shown here, btw! I've tried to learn some of the knots from online tutorials, but am having a bit of trouble.

I thought about asking someone to make a lanyard for me, but I think it would be better if I could learn how to make it myself. I know the basics of braiding (round 4-strand plait around a core, 6-strand round plait (and flat), stuff like that), but I don't have all the tools to bevel my lace and all...so it doesn't end up looking very "finished". Seems like it might be expensive to accumulate everything I need. (Maybe I should ask to buy one after all...hehe)

Right now, I am practicing with goatskin lace. I've read that kangaroo is the best, but should be split and beveled before use to result in a smooth finished product.

I've also read I need to roll my braid after soaping it to help smooth it out. I've tried doing this (on a tile floor) and it really isn't any smoother than it was before. Maybe I need to bevel the goatskin lace...(though I don't have a beveler). I'm using 3mm lace right now woven around a piece of 550 cord. The next step in my practice piece is to try to make a gaucho knot slide...still trying to find a good 5x4 turkshead tutorial that I can follow to start with and not having much luck finding one I can understand. I read that I should weave the knot over a piece of leather wrapped around where the knot will be so that it will slide easier on the lanyard.

Anyway, I will continue to read...if anyone has any other advice that I may need (or any particularly helpful tutorials that you've found helpful), please let me know. Forgot to mention I have the ABOK, Encyclopedia of Rawhide and Leather Braiding, and several other books on knots and braiding. I've been reading those a lot lately also. I'm going to hit them again tonight to see if I can find a good 5x4 turkshead diagram...

Sorry about rambling on there...just wanted folks to know that I have been reading a lot on this and searching threads here for info before posting.

Thanks for any assistance...

[TXAG]

Thanks for all the help here.

[KnotHead]

Here's a video from youtube. Bernie46 gives a vid on how to make your home made beveler. By the way, you're on the right track. Just a 4 strand round braid with NO core should do the job quite well. Remember, don't over think the project, or over do the project.

This should also help you with a turks head. From Tom Hall's Introduction to Turks Heads.

Brian...

Edited July 3, 2013 by KnotHead

[TXAG]

Thanks very much for those...I appreciate this info.

Trying the turkshead again now...I keep getting lost between fig 5 and 6...will keep at it though...

Thanks again...

[KnotHead]

You're welcome.

Brian...

[megabit]

Are you looking to hang the compass around your neck or just have a handle for it? If it is around your neck make sure it has some kind of breakaway so you don't get hung up by it.

[TXAG]

I probably should've mentioned that I've been making various types of lanyards for many years now...just not with leather...so I already know about breakaway clasps.

I also remove all items from around my neck prior to working on any sort of moving machinery anyway (as well as any and all other situations where I "might get hung up by it"), so.......yeah.

I did not ask for safety advice here -- I need help with the various knots and all. Thanks to folks that can provide any guidance on that info.

Edited July 5, 2013 by TXAG

[WScott]

wow

[Macca]

[megabit]

http://khww.net/viewpage.php?page_id=25

[TXAG]

http://khww.net/view....php?page_id=25

Yes...I did try the tutorials I saw on that page prior to posting this thread...It was actually one of the first places I looked for instructions. Unfortunately, I have trouble following them.

I've already looked in the places everyone knows about for instructions on turksheads...hoping someone else will have some possibly not as well-known links, like the one KnotHead provided before...I had not seen that one previously.

Thanks for the link though. Maybe it will help someone else having trouble.

Edited July 5, 2013 by TXAG

[megabit]

Braiding Rawhide Horse Tack by Robert L. Woolery http://www.ubraidit.com/supplies-detail.php?item=33]here[/url] does a very nice job of explaining how to tie buttons as does Gail Hought: http://www.hought.com/

Get some para cord practice, struggle and post pictures of your problems here. If that is too much work then I'd suggest google shopping lanyards.

For a compass I'd likely just go with a single piece of paracord with a lanyard knot by the compass and hangman style quick release. Along the lines of http://www.instructables.com/id/Break-Away-Lanyard-Knot/#step1]this[/url]

[TXAG]

NVM...not important and definitely not worth it...

Edited July 5, 2013 by TXAG

[penguineer]

Can't really offer much in the way of specific "how to do it" on the turks heads, apart from how I managed to figure it out.

Basically - persevere and practice. If you can figure out a 3/5 and a 4/5 turks head you have the basis of practically every other turks head(figuring out how to "raise" a turks head is another topic however).

I found that things made more sense if I used diagrams from one book that seemed clear and the instructions from another - just the way they are written or drawn can change the way you understand them.

You may be working with a mandrel or piece of dowel to set the knot up? Try doing the knot in some light cord around the first two fingers of your left(or non-dominant) hand - it keeps that hand out of the way, makes front and back of the knot obvious and I found it easier to spread the knot out to look like the pictures without it slipping out of shape. Most of the work is done on the front of the knot and you should only need to turn it over once or twice.

Ron Edwards(Aussie) turks heads books had the description and diagrams on how to do the knots around your fingers, but I think I used the wording from Ashleys to understand some parts.

Rolling the braid does help - try putting the braid on a bench and rolling a small piece of board across it - initially you will hear a thmp-thp-bmp-thmp noise as you roll top piece of board across it, but that will change to a wrr-wrr-wrr as the lumps and bumps get compressed. Then look at the braid and run your hand along it with your eyes closed - much smoother and I think the braid flexes easier, not as stiff.

Bevelling lace can be done with a sharp edge beveler(reasonably cheap tool from a leather supplier) - lay a ruler on your bench, lay the lace alongside and run the beveller along the outside edge of the lace, move the lace along until the full length is done on one side, then turn the lace around and do the other side.

It's not a perfect job, but it does reduce the bulk on the edges and makes the rolled braid much smoother.

Splitting lace is really just ensuring a uniform thickness. There's any variety of gadgets to do it, but I use a straight blade and a jig made out of cereal packets. Essentially, two strips of card the thickness of the final lace glued to a larger piece of card so the lace runs between them. Lay the lace in the "tunnel", put the knife across the top of the two pieces of card and pull the lace through.

It may take a little practice to get this happening smoothly without cutting the lace, but the end result is worth it.

Cheers!

[TXAG]

Still not having much luck at all in learning how to make the decorative beads for the lanyard I want to build. Wish I could find someone local to ask for help. There was one guy that seemed to post regularly on here but it appears he's dropped off the face of the Earth...(I sent him a PM, but he hasn't been back here since May).

I was thinking about ordering Gail Hought's books after reading many positive things about them in other threads on here. I'm hoping the pictures and illustrations in those books are better than the Grant book I have...I am unable to follow several of them. I read someone else said there are steps missing in some of them, so that's always great too.

Thinking about breaking down and just buying the lanyard from someone that will make me one that knows what they're doing. I need to figure out my threshhold of how long I want to bang my head against a concrete wall vs. just buying the thing.

Edited August 29, 2013 by TXAG

[KnotHead]

I have all of Tom Hall's books. The I refer back to for reference the most is, Introduction to Turk's Head Knots which can be found at this web address http://www.ubraidit.com/supplies-detail.php?item=41... I find that his illustrative instructions are much easier to follow. But that's just me and my opinion.

I don't know where you are located, or I would suggest some help as you have mentioned.

Brian...

[megabit]

Do you know more or less what you intend to make? I mean what buttons, how many, from what (roo, leather, rawhide)?

Get some para cord and practice the 5p4b turks head on your finger or a dowel until you can almost tie it in your sleep. Once you can tie it without looking at any of the instructions start working on doing the interweaves to make the pineapple, but make sure you have the base knot down before you move on.

Tom Halls books always get good reviews, but I don't have them so I can't comment. I like Robert Woolery's Braiding Rawhide Horse Tack, he does a very good job of explaining turks heads and pineapples.

http://khww.net/viewpage.php?page_id=25 is also a very good resource. I find the tutorials by the late Bud Brewer to be the best ones.

How to make the 5p4b turkshead

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=101

How to make a 5p4b turkshead into a pineapple

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=34

Gaucho Knot from 5p4b turkshead

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=6

Ginfer knot (makes a very neat and different button, I used it on my bridle reins)

http://khww.net/articles.php?article_id=78

finished romal reins by ss1442, on Flickr

[TXAG]

Thanks, KH...I will try to get that book. I ordered two other books yesterday, so hopefully they will help too.

[TXAG]

So...I found this page...

http://pineappleknotstutorials.over-blog.org/article-making-the-7x6-turk-s-head-knot-using-the-mule-90261560.html

...which led me to this link...

http://books.google.com/books?id=diG_FXiJMzkC&pg=PA22&dq=5+lead+4+bight+turk%27s+head+instructions&ei=DPSySaHzIoTOlQT6_YGvDg#v=onepage&q=5%20lead%204%20bight%20turk's%20head%20instructions&f=false

...and I think I FINALLY was able to tie this knot correctly. I will find out later when I try it again and then will add variations once I can tie it quickly.

I did receive the books I ordered from Gail Hought...they are very well-made and the illustrations are great in them. I think once I get a bit more experience tying the 5x4, I will be able to progress through her books with time and practice.

[TXAG]

Did these last night...hopefully, they are correct 5x4 TH...

Edited September 5, 2013 by TXAG

[TXAG]

Ok, I am now able to consistantly tie the 5x4 TH.

Proceeding on to gaucho knots...I hope. I tried the Bud Brewer "tutorials" (pictures) and cannot follow them.

If anyone can recommend any other additional resources for going from a 5x4TH to gaucho knot, please let me know. I tried stormdrane's tutorial too and cannot seem to follow it either...(I stop it every couple of seconds because he goes extremely fast and it's hard to keep up with where he is in the knot watching it at full speed...and apparently even when I pause it because I still cannot get it to look right that way either...)

[megabit]

The gaucho is actually pretty easy once you get it. Let me try to offer a couple of pointers:

• Tie your 5x4.
  
• Bring you last bight past the standing end instead of just before it and go under one.
  
• Follow the standing end up continuing over 1 under one over the last two.
  
• Going up follow the string on the right.
  
• Going down follow the string on the left.
  
• Split pairs as you come to them.
  
• Always leave the body of the knot by going over two.
  
• The secret to interweaves is learning what string to follow when and how far. (The gaucho is a little easier because you always go all the way out of the knot before you turn.)
  

[TXAG]

So I managed to learn the three pass gaucho knot today...I uploaded pics to the gallery...

Going to start on a bracelet tonight...

If anyone can offer ideas for bases for the knots, please let me know...in the books I have, it recommends tape. I've also read to use a small piece of leather stitched into a ring, smooth side innermost...and I've read some use wire. I'd like some good bases for the gaucho knots I'll be putting on my bracelet...I read Spanish ring knots don't need them though...is that right?

Edited September 12, 2013 by TXAG

[bucksnort]

There is a pretty good thread on pg 3 called knot/button foundations with a lot of info. Your knots are looking good.

[TXAG]

There is a pretty good thread on pg 3 called knot/button foundations with a lot of info. Your knots are looking good.

Thanks for that...I will go check it out...

I started doing a round 6-plait for my bracelet and found that the thickness of the two colors I was using was different enough to cause it not to come out smooth. That is a pain...so now I have to undo it and do the base 6-plait in all one color and then the knots in another... I may be able to do the knots in two colors, but I'm afraid they'll come out looking weird too due to the difference in thickness of the lace.

I tried using a small nylon core to braid over...it smoothed it out a bit, but it is not smooth enough (for me).

And before anyone says it, yes...I know...this is why everyone makes their own lace. (If you make your own lace, split it, bevel it, etc., you know it's done right and the thickness is uniform for all of it.)

One day, I will make my own lace, but I'd like to build a couple of things first. Looks like I'll be starting over with the single-color 6-plait tonight.

Thanks again...

Edited September 13, 2013 by TXAG