Tandy "antique" Finish Rubs Off

[bizbeblu]

Hi all,

I've been using Tandy's dyes and conditioners along with some Fiebing products for years. The gel antique finishes have served me well for quite some time. My dyeing technique is simple. Tool, clean leather, dye backgrounds (and any other desired detail portion) let dry overnight, then apply antique finish by rubbing it on, then as it dries continuing to rub it removing any excess and "buffing" the color. After it dries overnight, I apply multiple coats of either satin of super sheen: 4 - 5 being normal with at least 4 hours between. (I live in the desert. Things dry very fast.)

I completed a clutch purse that has a strap attached for one of my customers. I used my standard dye technique on it (similar to that which has been used on probably close to a dozen other clutch purses). This purse had the stamped down background dyed Bison Brown and then antique mahogany rubbed in. I haven't used the mahogany much, but it's what the customer wanted.

For whatever reason the dye/sealing has not worked properly. First in just regular use (over the shoulder while walking/moving) the dye/finish wore thru to the leather where it rubbed against her belt/jeans. I took it back, repaired the dye in the worn areas, rubbed everything out hard, and applied 4 coats of satin sheen with longer wait times. Now she's reporting that the dye color is rubbing off on her clothes and has to carry the clutch in her larger bag which of course defeats her whole reason for buying the piece.

If necessary I'll tool her a completely new one and not use an antique gel, but I'm hoping that some one here - more expert than myself - can suggest a solution. As I noted, I've used this approach quite a number of times (100's?) without encountering the dye rubbing off problem. She's one of my best customers and her word of mouth praise has been invaluable so while I make it right for any customer, I'm particularly concerned about getting her purse fixed.

I've read several threads here about dyeing. Obviously there are a number of ways to do it. My work is all carved and/or stamped so there's no dipping or spraying taking place.

Help would be greatly appreciated.

Robert

[cjdevito]

I use tandy's antique gel a lot myself but this isn't a problem I've encountered with it. The only thing that stands out that you do that I don't is that you use Super/Satin Shene. I really hate both of those and so never use them - I prefer a variety of other products, from RTC's Sheridan Resist to tandy's pro finishes. I can't say that the super shene is the problem, but it's the only thing that seems to differ between what you do and what I do.

[Mjolnir131]

Tandy has gone eco friendly so it's mostly all water based now. Even that Super Sheen is now made water based I believe. Maybe try Fiebing's or some other company that is not water based.

[bizbeblu]

Thanks for the feedback folks. I'm all for eco-friendly, but sometimes I think suppliers use the concept as a cover for not creating a good product. In my time I moved from oil house paint to latex and while I wasn't impressed with some of the early stuff, the current generation is actually better and fair easier to work with than the "good old days."

I'm suspicious of the satin sheen myself. I've mostly used the spray on stuff that seem to work quite well. I'm afraid I may have to redo this piece.

cjdevito - any idea if I can put a better quality finish over the satin sheen?

Thanks again,

Robert

[Bob Blea]

Hi Robert,

I use Tandy Eco-Flo antiques and I haven't (yet) had a problem with them rubbing off even when I didn't put a sealing top coat on them. I tried using Satin Sheen as a resist before and never got consistent resisting, so I was never happy with it. I'm suspicious the Satin Sheen isn't keeping your dye in place. Once thing I can recommend that you didn't mention in your process is adding Neatsfoot oil. I normally oil after tooling before doing any finishes, and if I dye the background I go back and add a little more oil to those areas. I've been told the solvents in the dye can destroy the natural oils in leather so going back and restoring them with Neatsfoot not only helps with that, it also helps to better set the dye. Maybe that additional step can help make sure you don't get rub off?

Just a thought,

Bob

[bizbeblu]

Hi Robert,

I use Tandy Eco-Flo antiques and I haven't (yet) had a problem with them rubbing off even when I didn't put a sealing top coat on them. I tried using Satin Sheen as a resist before and never got consistent resisting, so I was never happy with it. I'm suspicious the Satin Sheen isn't keeping your dye in place. Once thing I can recommend that you didn't mention in your process is adding Neatsfoot oil. I normally oil after tooling before doing any finishes, and if I dye the background I go back and add a little more oil to those areas. I've been told the solvents in the dye can destroy the natural oils in leather so going back and restoring them with Neatsfoot not only helps with that, it also helps to better set the dye. Maybe that additional step can help make sure you don't get rub off?

Bob,

So you put Neatsfoot on before you dye? While it makes sense that wet leather could use conditioning, I would have thought that an oil would have affected the dye's penetration. I'm mostly using water based dyes so am interested in the approach. Anyone ever try to put a conditioner on after using super sheen? I guess the Tandy finish is supposed to resist things, but in this case it certainly doesn't seem to be doing the job. I'll run a test on some antiqued leather, super sheen, and then a conditioner and see what happens.

Thanks for the ideas,

Robert

[Bob Blea]

Hi Robert,

I do put the Neatsfoot on before anything else, and then I let it set for at least 8 hours, usually overnight. I just oiled a couple of notebooks and they will probably sit for a couple of days before I do anything else with them. As you let the oil set it spreads out through the leather. When you first put it on it will look blotchy but it evens out over time. You only put on a light coat and once things even out the leather doesn't feel oily at all and it doesn't seem to effect dye or antique penetration at all that I've seen.

In my experience the finish coat has always been the last thing you put on. The super sheen or any other sheen products will resist the oil or other product too.

Bob

[FlHobbyist]

Thought I'd jump right in here and talk about Super Sheen as a resist. Super Sheen works pretty good as a resist except when it doesn't. I.e. results are real unpredictable when using Super Sheen, as I learned much to my chagrin this morning. I've been using it as a resist for the last few months over acrylic paint and it worked pretty good, though I now suspect the acrylic paints were what was doing the resisting to Tandy's discontinued hi-lite stains.

I close my eyes and see resolene and clear-lac in my future from Springfield. I've only had 4 months of dealing with Tandy goodies, but the more I see, the less I like, though it sure is nice to be able to hop in the car and drive over to Tampa to check out their wares.

[bizbeblu]

I'm sure I got into using Tandy products the same way most of us did. If you're over a certain age, Tandy was about the only way to get anything to do with leather. When I returned to working leather (after a decade or two out of the craft), I just assumed Tandy was the way to go. Obviously the old Tandy is gone and "Tandy Leather Factory" mostly bought the name. I still get stuff from them and several of their store managers are excellent people and resources. Corporate? What's the cheapest thing we can get out of China? Sad, but hardly unique. I guess I need to find other sources of materials. You mention Springfield. Is that another line of product or a different jobber/retailers?

Robert

[FlHobbyist]

You mention Springfield. Is that another line of product or a different jobber/retailers?

It is Springfield Leather Company. They carry many non-Tandy items and come highly recommended. If you do a quick search here you will see many accolades. You can get their web address by doing a google or bing search.

[Curley Fryes]

I'm sure I got into using Tandy products the same way most of us did. If you're over a certain age, Tandy was about the only way to get anything to do with leather. When I returned to working leather (after a decade or two out of the craft), I just assumed Tandy was the way to go. Obviously the old Tandy is gone and "Tandy Leather Factory" mostly bought the name. I still get stuff from them and several of their store managers are excellent people and resources. Corporate? What's the cheapest thing we can get out of China? Sad, but hardly unique. I guess I need to find other sources of materials. You mention Springfield. Is that another line of product or a different jobber/retailers?

Robert

Here's their web page. Check them out.

http://springfieldleather.com/