What Are The Elements Of Saddle Making That Are Tough To Learn On Your Own?

[vacacaballo]

I was planning on studying this winter with an accomplished saddle maker, in one of those 3-5 week courses where you build your first effort under the tutelage of an expert. I realise this kind of course is not necessary and many folks just buy their tools, hardware, and sides...and just start building a saddle. Even so, I was really looking forward to it, since I felt I'd have the best start possible...as well as a shiny new Wade at the end of the course. Anyway, you know what they say about plans. 8-) It's starting to look like that's not going to work out. So, I'd like to ask y'all for some advice...

I have another opportunity to take a week long workshop with a really well respected saddle maker, watching him build a customer's saddle from start to finish...and getting to ask questions along the way. I would not be building anything myself. This workshop is about 20% of the total cost for the 3-5 week course...which is a plus for me right now, as funds are unusually tight. But, I don't own any tools and it will probably be another year before I'm in a position (financially and geographically) to buy my own tools and build a saddle of my own.

My questions are...

1. How does watching a great saddle maker for a week compare, in terms of practical take-home value, to actually building a saddle under supervision?

2. If I take the week-long workshop, are there elements that I should pay particular attention to, that are hard to pickup from the saddle making books and DVDs I already have (I have most of them, with the notable exception of Jeremiah Watts' DVDs) ?

Sorry for the wordy post. Thanks for any thoughts you might contribute here. I want to start right...and not waste money in the process.

[Russ]

Dunno what you are paying for your audit of the saddle making class, but I'm sure it will be very beneficial. I went to

http://www.jssaddlery.net/

and took his saddle making class several years ago. For the price, which was reasonable, I built my own saddle with his assistance. It took me 7 working days. I learned enough to make my own saddles of the same type on my own. I have since returned several times and build different types of saddles and expanded my knowledge.

I've never spent time actually just watching a saddle maker build a saddle, so I can't help you with question 1.

As for question 2, I also had many books and the Stohlman set of books on saddle making, but the time I spent at the shop was so much more valuable I can't put a price tag on it. To see it in person, ask questions, etc.....priceless. If, of course, you want to build more saddles. I got a lot especially out of the proper building of the ground seat, angle, dish, etc. I also got a lot out of various ways to cover the fork, and how to sew the cantle binding on. I can assure you, I would not have been successful with just looking at a book or DVD. Of course, everyone learns differently!

Good luck!

Russ

I was planning on studying this winter with an accomplished saddle maker, in one of those 3-5 week courses where you build your first effort under the tutelage of an expert. I realise this kind of course is not necessary and many folks just buy their tools, hardware, and sides...and just start building a saddle. Even so, I was really looking forward to it, since I felt I'd have the best start possible...as well as a shiny new Wade at the end of the course. Anyway, you know what they say about plans. 8-) It's starting to look like that's not going to work out. So, I'd like to ask y'all for some advice...

I have another opportunity to take a week long workshop with a really well respected saddle maker, watching him build a customer's saddle from start to finish...and getting to ask questions along the way. I would not be building anything myself. This workshop is about 20% of the total cost for the 3-5 week course...which is a plus for me right now, as funds are unusually tight. But, I don't own any tools and it will probably be another year before I'm in a position (financially and geographically) to buy my own tools and build a saddle of my own.

My questions are...

1. How does watching a great saddle maker for a week compare, in terms of practical take-home value, to actually building a saddle under supervision?

2. If I take the week-long workshop, are there elements that I should pay particular attention to, that are hard to pickup from the saddle making books and DVDs I already have (I have most of them, with the notable exception of Jeremiah Watts' DVDs) ?

Sorry for the wordy post. Thanks for any thoughts you might contribute here. I want to start right...and not waste money in the process.

[vacacaballo]

Russ, thanks for your feedback. Jim's program looks great. And I hear what you're saying about the initial build being about a single saddle type. I guess that's one limitation, no matter how you start. A groundseat for a Wade is going to be considerably different from that on a cutting saddle, I imagine.

Since I have no leather working experience at all, it's the little things that I imagine will make the difference for me. For instance, when properly casing your leather, how wet is too wet? It seems that kind of thing is all about feel...and not really the kind of thing I can get from a book.

The difference in cost between the 3-5 week program and the week-long workshop audit is $5,700 and $1,300, respectively. Both prices include accommodation...but, not travel (which is also less for the workshop).

Thanks again...I appreciate it.

Edited August 31, 2013 by vacacaballo

[Sandy Robbins]

I agree...books, dvd's and just watching someone make a saddle will not be enough. I too took a saddle course and nothing replaces that knowledge. They never tell you all the little tricks on the dvd's. But if you watch and read after it intensifies your knowledge. I would start out finding a saddlemaker that would teach you how to make the saddle you want. Like a cutter or roper also something with swells. Where it challenges you to learn. One more thing ....there is a difference in a men's and women's saddle....you should learn that also in making your ground seat. Spend the extra money on a good teacher. They are worth it! I wish you the best...and keep learning!

Sandy

[Russ]

Building a saddle with no leather working experience will be quite a challenge. You are in grad school territory and haven't made it into grade school yet. I think you are gonna need a live teacher. Might as well go somewhere that you go home with a saddle afterwards.

Russ, thanks for your feedback. Jim's program looks great. And I hear what you're saying about the initial build being about a single saddle type. I guess that's one limitation, no matter how you start. A groundseat for a Wade is going to be considerably different from that on a cutting saddle, I imagine.

Since I have no leather working experience at all, it's the little things that I imagine will make the difference for me. For instance, when properly casing your leather, how wet is too wet? It seems that kind of thing is all about feel...and not really the kind of thing I can get from a book.

The difference in cost between the 3-5 week program and the week-long workshop audit is $5,700 and $1,300, respectively. Both prices include accommodation...but, not travel (which is also less for the workshop).

Thanks again...I appreciate it.

[vacacaballo]

Russ - Thanks again. That makes a lot of sense. As for the grad school challenge, I'm definitely up for it. Although, if I do decide on the workshop audit, I'll be sure to start making chaps/chinks, bridles, breastplates, etc., before tackling a saddle project. Even so, I have a long line of family members who will take my less-than-perfect initial saddle attempts. They just may not carry a makers stamp. 8-)

Sandy - As a saddle maker, how do you allow for the anatomical differences between men and women? I've seen a couple of groundseats built and gender differences were never addressed, although I've certainly considered the question myself.

With the tuberosity of the ischium sitting wider on females than males, I can imagine making the low-point in the ground seat a little wider or flatter on top. And, if that's the case, why wouldn't a saddle maker just make all there seats in this manner, since it would make very little difference to a male, should he ride such a seat. We're only talking a couple of inches here.

Are there other gender-specific differences to consider?

Edited September 1, 2013 by vacacaballo

[Northmount]

Look at post 18 in this thread. http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=46554&st=15

Rest of the thread has some good and interesting discussion about saddle fit.

Tom

[vacacaballo]

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate the link.

[Sandy Robbins]

The difference of the men's vs women's seat would be in making your ground seat. I add an extra piece of leather to make it wider for women. A little leather makes a big difference in comfort. Look at a banana seat on a bicycle and those wider seats alot of the women ride on....big difference. I never new about the ground seat either. My teacher was around 80 years old. Your ground seat is very important to your comfort as well as the tree fitting your horse properly. I have ridden men's saddles but i go back to mine and it just sits better for me. That is not to say the others weren't good saddles. I mostly do repairs and do not make many saddles. That is one way to learn how different people build their saddles. That link is very informative. Good luck to you.

Sandy

[Ruark]

1. How does watching a great saddle maker for a week compare, in terms of practical take-home value, to actually building a saddle under supervision?

2. If I take the week-long workshop, are there elements that I should pay particular attention to, that are hard to pickup from the saddle making books and DVDs I already have (I have most of them, with the notable exception of Jeremiah Watts' DVDs) ?

You're going to learn very little in 3-5 weeks, unless you already have some experience and know what to look for. Sometimes it's a very small thing, like holding a hand tool a certain way, that can make a huge difference. As far as the 1-week workshop, I can't imagine anybody making a decent saddle in a week. Be careful.

[Russ]

You're going to learn very little in 3-5 weeks, unless you already have some experience and know what to look for. Sometimes it's a very small thing, like holding a hand tool a certain way, that can make a huge difference. As far as the 1-week workshop, I can't imagine anybody making a decent saddle in a week. Be careful.

With all due respect Ruark, I still ride in my first saddle that I made in a week. I shoot in it, rope in it, trail ride in it. I suggest you be careful with your first posts.

[Ruark]

With all due respect Ruark, I still ride in my first saddle that I made in a week. I shoot in it, rope in it, trail ride in it. I suggest you be careful with your first posts.

Didn't mean to offend anyone, Russ. Like everybody else here, I have my own viewpoint, based on what I was taught and what I learned. I didn't say it wasn't possible to make a saddle in a week, I just said "be careful." We all come from different backgrounds. Myself, I learned from 3rd and 4th generation rural West Texas saddlemakers, who made almost entirely super heavy duty, full-double-rigged working ranch saddles, made to be used outside, all day, every day, year round, in every imaginable situation, from riding fence all week to jerking bulls. We always took 4 to 6 weeks to make a saddle, depending on things like tooling and lacing, which of course took more time. That's making 2 or maybe 3 saddles at a time, where you work on one for a day or two while the other sits letting glues dry, etc.

Many, many times I heard comments like, "some guys say they can make a saddle in a week, but I don't know what they'd be good for, except sittin' on a horse and looking pretty." Of course, that's a little over the top, but that's what I grew up hearing.

Again, this is just my background, and I'm not saying anybody else is right or wrong, and I intended no offense to anybody. But I'll say again, if I were a green beginner and some guy was going to take a bunch of my money and show me how to make a saddle in a week, I would.... well... "be careful."

Ruark

Edited June 14, 2014 by Ruark

[Russ]

That's fair enough Ruark. Perhaps I was too quick and too harsh in my response. I know that I have a full 70 hours (7 ten hour days) on my saddles where I was being instructed. And that includes some doubling up, where my instructor would work some to show me a technique and then I would follow his example. Since I wanted to learn the ins and outs of building saddles, I skipped any tooling and extravagant lacing. Now that I live next door, literally, to my teacher, I'm spending more time on "pretty" and it does take longer...but 4-6 weeks on a saddle would pretty much put us out of business. Maybe we should actually be talking about hours put into a saddle rather than time from squaring the tree to sending it out the door.

Again, my apologies, Ruark, I hope no hard feelings.

Russ

Didn't mean to offend anyone, Russ. Like everybody else here, I have my own viewpoint, based on what I was taught and what I learned. I didn't say it wasn't possible to make a saddle in a week, I just said "be careful." We all come from different backgrounds. Myself, I learned from 3rd and 4th generation rural West Texas saddlemakers, who made almost entirely super heavy duty, full-double-rigged working ranch saddles, made to be used outside, all day, every day, year round, in every imaginable situation, from riding fence all week to jerking bulls. We always took 4 to 6 weeks to make a saddle, depending on things like tooling and lacing, which of course took more time. That's making 2 or maybe 3 saddles at a time, where you work on one for a day or two while the other sits letting glues dry, etc.

Many, many times I heard comments like, "some guys say they can make a saddle in a week, but I don't know what they'd be good for, except sittin' on a horse and looking pretty." Of course, that's a little over the top, but that's what I grew up hearing.

Again, this is just my background, and I'm not saying anybody else is right or wrong, and I intended no offense to anybody. But I'll say again, if I were a green beginner and some guy was going to take a bunch of my money and show me how to make a saddle in a week, I would.... well... "be careful."

Ruark