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It probably would, but my target is currently to produce small leather items, so I would like the thread thinner, hence want to stick with 632 and 532 for the time being. To my taste, 332 would look too bulky on a small wallet (or any wallet for that matter). At the end of the day, if I don't like the new pricking irons, I can always sell them - with good care, they shouldn't lose too much of their price.

  • 3 weeks later...
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Thanks for another detailed response, Macca! Just placed an order for Vergez Blanchard 10/10 and 10/2, let's see how they work:)

Thanks again to everyone who helped clarify this!

I feel this is a little late but maybe useful for future buyers. A lot of good advice on here and mostly saying the same thing. It is very important to get the relationship of the hole and thread right.

Mart, your stitching looks good, but your holes do look quite large.

Dixon's do the slimline irons as Jax mentioned, they are 1.2mm thick as opposed to the 3.5mm monsters they show on the web, but you need to ask for them. They don't advertise this, they also do the 2 prong irons good for tight bends again, upon request.

They are the same price and made to order.

A bit late now you've put an order in with Blanchard, I've never used them, but I don't think you'll be disappointed with them. They are supposed to be the best available.

Nige

The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources.

www.armitageleather.com

  • 10 months later...
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Posted (edited)

Interesting thread. It sounds like 3.5mm is Dixon's standard size (but why so big?) - perhaps, the thinner 1.2mm requires custom grinding and is only done upon special request? However, when I ordered my pricking iron from Joseph Dixon Ltd., I was very careful to specify "slim" at several points (including in email & on the phone) but the one they sent produces holes which seem way too long (yes, I would estimate 3.5mm :( - but I will check) and they said it had to be made to order. If you mark your stitching line ~6mm from the edge (per several of Nigel's excellent videos), the pricking iron cuts scarely close to the edge. Thinking of contacting them, rather than continuing to grumble.

Meantime, I purchased a cheap but good set of 3 Estone pricking irons from Amazon and they work very well, just as I would hope & expect :) - they are 8 spi & would likely suit small work like mart99's original post.

Macca, good tip about using thicker thread - although I am already using 0.8mm Tiger thread & thicker threads - & nice examples of applying oltoot's suggestions. Thanks for sharing.

It may be a bit of a daunting task, but many users will thin a Dixons pricking iron. They are notorious for having very thick teeth.

I think Matt hit the nail on the head there, the newer Dixons pricking irons do seem to have larger teeth, the last time I bought a new one (many moons ago) I asked if they could make the teeth smaller, I used to be able to call into the factory & often took a piece of leather with marks punched to give them an idea of what I wanted, they were always happy to adjust the tool & it only took a few minutes, I've not bought from them in a long time so don't know what they are like now, but they were always very helpful & friendly when I was buying my tools. These days I tend to look out for old pricking irons, they do have much finer teeth.

Interesting. Did you see how they did it - using a bench-grinder perhaps? Not really what you'd expect after paying so much for a tool and postage (their shipping charge is by far the highest I have come across - & why both to rush it when they take more than a week to process the order - the pricking iron was made to order - & I was in no hurry).

Edited by Tannin
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BTW Does the width of the awl play any part in this? (e.g. Even if the pricking iron cuts overly long slots - woud using a narrow awl help keep the holes small?). I thought awl blades only varied in length but another thread on this forum had some discussion on awl blade widths.

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Posted

I like my awl to pretty well match the prickmark if it is too small it will be easy to make your hole in either the top or bottom of the mark if you are not carefull, making your stitching look untidy.

My preference is a small mark & small stitches but that's just me its a personal thing everyone is different. I would give Dixons a call & see if they will make things right for you, as I said earlier in this post it's been a good few years since I dealt with them & things may have changed. I never saw how the tools were modified, they used to just take a stock item off into the workshop, a few minutes later they would return with a hot, modified tool which was then wrapped carefully in oiled brown paper, the guys there in those days were lovely.

I really hope they make things right for you.

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Posted (edited)

Awl blades very in width, length, and profile, and can affect stitching.

Awl handle sizes can vary significantly, which is mostly important for how it fits your hand.

Awl handle sizes

Awl blade length, width and profile also vary greatly. The left is a Tandy 4 in 1, the right a Tandy 1 1/4" awl, and the middle three are three sizes of Seiwa awl.

Awl blade sizes and profiles

You can clearly see that the left awl .. sometimes referred to a saddler's awl or a wing awl has a significant taper to the blade and will make a larger hole on the entry side of the leather than on the exit side. It also requires precise depth control to maintain the same hole size on the entry side. The right awl is also tapered, but not nearly so much as the first. The middle three are straight sided and will make the same size hole through both sides of the leather, and are the ones I prefer to use. Also of note, the Seiwa awls arrived in a nearly usable state and required very little work to make very sharp. The other two required quite a lot of work to make usable.
Hope that helps
Bill
Edited by billybopp
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Posted

The three japanese awls are made of low quality steel, when put on a stone the metal gets rough. This is my experience with I believe a siewa awl or craft Sha awl that isn't the one in billy's picture but should be similar quality. Vergez blanchard awl works great and can be bought for 6 dollars for each blade and installed into an adjustable osborne awl handle and swapped out with a different size.

japanese awls come sharp out the box but has a short shelf life, compared to the vergez I have now for over a year and hardly needs retouching once it was honed.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for the responses :) I just made a test stamp with my Dixon pricking iron and the slots cut measure closer to 3mm than 3.5mm/1.2mm. I used a thick piece of quite hard leather, perhaps that helped prevent the iron penetrating fully. It actually looked better than I recall - perhaps it works better in thicker/harder leathers than softer/thinner leather?

I've been using mainly (USA made?*) C. S. Osbourne awl blades (spear/leaf-shaped saddlers awl blades), which I sharpen & strop. I haven't seen them mentioned very much on this forum so far, which surprised me given the number of US & Canadian members. Are there better options? Vergez Blanchard for $6 (I see US & Canadian dollars are about the same value these days) sounds very interesting - I paid significantly more than that for the Osbourne blades here (oddly, an Osbourne blade here costs the same as a complete Osbourne awl with handle!); I would expect French-made blades (if that's what they are) to be cheaper here than in N. America. BTW I recently received 2 new, longer, diamond-section, saddler's blades from LePrevo @ half the price of the Osbourne blades, haven't tried them out yet but they look pretty good.

*I was surprised to find that my saddler's needles from old English company John James are made in China, while I noticed (in a picture in a leather book) a packet of needles from USA company C. S. Osbourne labelled "made in England"!

Edited by Tannin
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Posted

Vergez is french made as far as I know. Once I find something that works perfect I won't try anything else unless quality starts to dip. I will be using vergez for pricking irons and awls as the only brand. Fil au chinois as my thread, john james for my needles, and horween, WC for my leathers. Its hard to find good reliable tools, so once you find them I keep using them. I tried other brands and they work so/so.

Companies I avoid are dixon/ japanese irons and japanese made awls. Im unsure about dixon's die cutters they are definitely economically priced.

Makers I go for are mostly european or custom tool makers.

With the pricking iron you can penetrate fully on leathers up to 4mm and rub your fingers on the marks to close up a bit.

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Posted (edited)

... I mean, if I do not put the knot in, the angle of stitches on the front does get quite steep, while the stitches on the back straighten-up. But as soon as I throw the thread over the right-hand needle, the angle gets shallower (although visible on both sides) and the thread gets pushed to the upper side of the holes.

Tried to follow Nigel's videos word by word, but never managed to get steep angles of stitches on both sides, no matter what thickness of the thread I used (This is something I will ask in the forum thread about his videos)

...

I wondered if the direction of the slots might be key (e.g. top of the slot towards you or away from you) & which direction you sew (towards you/away)? Macca's sample stitching is what I am aiming for. Sometimes times I get closer than others, which made me wonder if it might be a 50:50 thing, depending on which way direction I stitch relative to the direction of slant.

Camano ridge is right about the slots "healing up": I got my needle wallet out tonight and the long slots on the centre seam have "healed over" and are no longer visible. Leather has some interesting properties.

... here is a link to Niegels video

Nigel has 2 saddle stitch videos, although the one above is billed as "in detail", I still sometimes find it useful to refer to the shorter original one:

Edited by Tannin

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