Mitsubishi Ls2-130...good Enough Starter Machine?

[sproggy]

I have access to this used machine, a Mitsubishi LS2-130, and could buy it for about $200 (with table and motor). It has a 1/3 hp clutch motor and the pulley is 4 inches in diameter (that's the one that you can turn with your hand for slow sewing, located at the top of the machine, correct?). I am told it has been set up for leather but I'm very ignorant still on these matters. After reading a fair bit on here I thought to buy a walking foot machine but those are much more expensive and the truth is, what I'm planning to sew, for the most part, are soft leathers (up to 3mm) as well as a fair bit of fabric (some heavy canvas but also some lighter-weight material for linings, packing bags, etc...like men's cotton shirting weight). Does this machine look like a decent proposal? I have used it and for the life of me I can't control it very well. It doesn't seem to like to go slow AT ALL. Do I just need practice? I have read on here that the machines can be slowed down by changing the pulley wheel and belt. Is this an option for this machine? Should I change to a servo motor? Do I really need two machines? Perhaps this one for fabric and a walking foot for the leather? I am under the impression that a walking foot for light-weight fabric is no a good match.

Thanks all, Sproggy.

[Geneva]

I found a picture of this machine online. It appears to be a high speed straight stitch machine upwards of 3000 stitches per minute. It depends on how high the pressure foot will lift as to what you can get under it to sew. If it will lift 10 or 12mm you should be ok with the leather. To sew leather you need to slow the machine down to 600 to 800 stitches per minute. There are two ways to do this. The best is to install a servo motor that will operate from 0 to 3000 stitches per minute. They are controllable with the adjustments that are built into the motor. The second is to install a speed reducer pulley. This fix will be a constant speed it can not increase the speed of the machine. The speed will be just about what you want to sew leather with. I hope this helps. Good luck with your project. Two machines would be the best.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Geneva

[sproggy]

This is like magic, getting answers here. Amazing, thank you thank you. I assume the reducer pulley is a much cheaper route to go than changing the motor, correct? I believe I read on this forum that clutch motors go at full speed or zero speed and the only way to control that speed is by giving bursts on the pedal. Is it me or is it an incredibly difficult movement to finesse? Perhaps it's just the set-up of this machine that makes it so difficult...

The person that has this machine and is teaching me a bit of sewing is hard to get straight-forward answers from and he scoffed at any info I got from this site so it is hard to be certain about which path I should take.

Thanks again, Sproggy

[Northmount]

You need a small pulley on the motor to reduce the machine speed, about 2". Then you may need a shorter belt. Changing from a 3" to a 2" pulley will reduce the belt length required by about 1". Your mounting bracket might have enough adjustment to accommodate the change without a new belt, needs to be able drop down 1".

With clutch motors, you slip the clutch to run at slow speeds. Ever drive a car with a manual transmission? You slip the clutch to get started. It takes practice. Sometimes you may be able to adjust the clutch mechanism to make it easier to feather (or slip) the clutch.

Pulley reducer set may be around $125. And you need to get 2 belts. You will have to measure to figure out the belt sizes.

Servo motor is around the same price and up. Servo is easier to operate. Still need the small diameter motor pulley. Depending on mounting and range of adjustment, you may need a shorter belt.

Tom

[sproggy]

Thanks, Tom. So even if I swap the motor to a servo type, I still have the $125 expense of changing the pulley, yes? Is it the pulley on the motor itself or the one on the the right-hand side of the machine that one turns by hand to lift the needle? Or do both of these need to be changed? Any particulars I should look for in the servo motor? As it is, I'm really afraid to sew leather where the sewing is visible since the machine is so hard to control. I don't doubt I need practice with the clutch. At the same time, I can't understand why it needs to be so difficult. What about running it through a rheostat or does that rob too much power?

Cheers, Peter

[Northmount]

Thanks, Tom. So even if I swap the motor to a servo type, I still have the $125 expense of changing the pulley, yes? Is it the pulley on the motor itself or the one on the the right-hand side of the machine that one turns by hand to lift the needle? Or do both of these need to be changed? Any particulars I should look for in the servo motor? As it is, I'm really afraid to sew leather where the sewing is visible since the machine is so hard to control. I don't doubt I need practice with the clutch. At the same time, I can't understand why it needs to be so difficult. What about running it through a rheostat or does that rob too much power?

Cheers, Peter

Put a small 2 to 2.5" pulley on the motor whether you use the original clutch motor or a servo motor. If you want to run even slower with the clutch motor, then you put a pulley speed reducer set between the clutch motor and the machine pulley.

For the light weight sewing you are doing, a servo with a 2.5" pulley should be fine. No additional speed reducer pulley needed.

Rheostats or varac transformers can be used. There is a risk of overheating the motor. The motor has a cooling fan. If it is running too slow, it will not provide the required cooling. Running an induction motor (the kind on your clutch motor) slow also causes more internal heating in the motor. Don't expect the motor to be able to run at half speed. That is probably too slow to provide the cooling it requires.

I have a digital servo on a Singer U20-33 (It is a high speed commercial sewing machine used for draperies and dress making originally, came with a clutch motor) that I use for wallet interiors and such. This is like my servo http://shop.raphaelsewing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=293

This is a pulley speed reducer http://shop.raphaelsewing.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=354

You can build your own speed reducer if you are handy with tools and have a source for the hardware. See http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=45336&hl=pulley#entry284770 post #11. You are probably further ahead time wise to buy the set already built.

Tom

[sproggy]

Hi Tom, that is great and specific info, thank you. I will look into, firstly, the price of servo motors here after which I can evaluate swapping motors or just changing the pulley on the clutch motor to see what that gives me. The speed reducers seem strangely expensive when compared to the price of a new motor. Of course, since I'm in Thailand prices will probably be a lot different. No doubt many Chinese built items, and Japanese, too. Is there some advantage to clutch motors such as production cost of the motor? I'm wondering why they make machines with clutch motors and not servos. There must be some benefit.

What do I do with the clutch motor if I swap it out for a servo?

I wouldn't want to try and make my own reducer. I'm a bit mechanical but not THAT mechanical....!

[Northmount]

Clutch motors have been around for many years, very reliable. The inertia of the rotating mass helps punch through heavy or harder material. Just hard for us to get used to feathering the clutch and maintains control at low speeds.

If you have a 3" pulley on your motor now, a 2" will reduce the top speed to 2/3 of what it is now, still quite fast, at least for me, but at least a little more manageable.

Low cost servos are relatively new. Some cheap ones have had problems.

Old clutch motor ... throw it away unless you know someone that needs one or can find another use for it.

Tom