Keyair Report post Posted November 17, 2013 Hello everyone! New to this, so need some help! Needed a machine to do some Automotive Upholstery and carpet work. There will be some leatherwork in my plan too! Found and bought a Cutsew CS-206RB for a nice price. Looks identical to a Consew 206RB-1 in every way. It came from a school that closed, and the seller thought was made in the 80's. My mother, who has been a Seamstress for 65 years tested the machine. She set it up from cold in a few minutes, even though she had never seen this make before(she is a Bernina and Pfaff expert). She sewed a single, double and quad layer of leather as a test. and pronounced it very strong, and smooth, and I trust her senses and knowledge, so bought it. Now its home, I am wondering exactly what I have... a Consew Knock-off, or just a rebadge? Did I do ok or buy a pup? I will post some pictures soon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted November 17, 2013 So, here are the pics I took this morning... Oh, and I just remembered the seller told me the motor was replaced... I gather this might be a good thing... Servo Motor in place of a clutch motor? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Greystone Report post Posted November 17, 2013 not an expert about the machine but looks good ,, NICE buy if you are happy with your purchase price even with the servo motor consider adding a speed reducer, for leather and better slow speed power and control CONGRATS David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Thanks David! I am happy with the purchase price... as it cost ME nothing more than a few gallons of gas... My parents bought it for me as a birthday gift! Having said that, the price was very reasonable in comparison to what similar used industrial quality walking foot machine were going for locally, and on Ebay. I had missed a nice looking Pfaff last week, which was frustrating. The Cutsew name plate has me confused a little... The only place I found it was here... Identical machine.. http://www.cutsewservice.com/206.htm Please, if I bought a piece of junk, I want to know now before I start the learning process! I was pleased to see that the motor was a servo unit, and in fact I somehow when my mother did the test, in the back of my mind, I noted that when the power button was on, it was quiet. Now I understand why! Can I get details on this "Speed Reducer", and cost? Assuming that it was a good buy, I need to fix some small issues... The oil drip pan needs to be re-attached at one end... the nails are gone. It will need a new belt too. Seems to be a tiny bit of surface rust on the shafts under... is that a worry? Also I want to "Touch-Up" the paint chips... what do you use for paint? Also need to start getting some accessories... It came with this foot assembly... what else should I get? I got some oil droppers, but not much oil... what do I need? Also, only 4 bobbins, one bobbin case, and 3 packs of 135/17 I think.. Can anyone suggest a basics list of things I will need? I will be edging carpet first, then moving on to some leather basics, like a gear lever and parking brake gaiter.. Edited November 17, 2013 by Keyair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stanly Report post Posted November 19, 2013 kind of a small motor-2nd the speed reducer I'd at least get the std. foot w/ toe on each side- consider ordering package of assorted feet off Ebay whatever oil u've got u need zoom spout oiler thread? upholstery wt. at least. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted November 22, 2013 Been busy! After we got it home, we gave it a thorough clean, oiling, and wipe down inside and out. Fixed the drip tray with screws rather than the nails. My mother dialed in the tensions, as they were way off, and showed me the basics. I am suffering an eye condition and awaiting surgery, so cant do much more than watch and listen at the moment.. She did some test pieces. This thing can sew she says! She sewed some sticky vinyl, leather, and even some thick plastic. Didn't miss a stitch or foul up one time once she got the tension better set. She felt that the machine was going to be a handful for me, as a novice because it is tricky to control at low speed, even with the motor speed dialed down with the dial... Some research and reading suggested that a smaller motor pulley is a good start point. The one fitted is a 3 1/4", and so I found a 2 1/8" on Ebay. I am thinking about adding something like this... can I gets some opinions? http://www.ebay.com/itm/SEWING-MACHINE-SPEED-REDUCER-PULLY-WITH-2-6-PULLEY-/300720909352?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item46045cec28 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Hayes Report post Posted November 22, 2013 The speed reducer will work, it will slow the machine and increase the torque. As to that specific reducer I don't really have an opinion, I would however urge you to check with one of the dealers that advertise here, they often answer questions and help. Toledo Industrial sewing(Bob), Leather Machine Co (Steve), Raphael Sewing (Ronnie) and Gregg from Keystone sewing. Good to help them when possible. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted November 22, 2013 Installing a speed reducer is not trivial for a first timer. Not only will you need to position it exactly under the flywheel on the machine, you'll also need to align it with the motor pulley. Plus, you'll need to purchase two new v-belts: 1 from the motor to the large pulley and 1 to go up from the small pulley to the machine. Once you install a reducer you will need to loosen it to remove the belt going to the head, in order to flip the head for oiling or adjustments, if any are needed. Finally, make sure that the reducer you purchase has ball bearings. In the meanwhile, a 2" motor pulley and 1 inch shorter belt will make a noticeable improvement in your low end controllability and torque. You may not need a reducer at all! But, if torque is still lacking, a better motor might make a world of difference. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted November 22, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the input Guys! J Hayes: New to this site, so thanks for that heads up... Always good to support the supporters! Wizcraft: First of all, awesome write-up you did... it was pivotal in my choice of machine! Now I am sure I have a rebadged Consew 206RB-1... Which I read is stronger than the later versions maybe? A little bit about me might ease your mind! I might be new to sewing, but I am a lifelong gearhead, mechanic and tinkerer, and have a rather interesting skill set... I have 30+ years of experience in Automotive Design, as a sculptor before my eyesight issue. Lots of years doing Clay, woodwork, metal and fiberglass. One of the things I loved doing was "Mock Trimming" clay interiors... After we had sculpted the clay model for the Instrument panel, doors, or sometimes seats we needed to make it look realistic. We would find a leather skin with the grain we liked, then take a silicon mould off it. This mould would be sprayed with multiple layers of latex paint until it formed a skin. We would then peel this skin off the mould and apply it to the clay model to give the leather grain look. This would often involve making mock joints, with mock stitch-lines. Also color and texture changes could be done, as well as building cloth trimmed or wood grain inserts... For those that need to get their heads around this kind of thing... I found this picture of a Mustang Clay interior that had a similar treatment to what I described... Yes, it is clay under all that trickery! This is not one I worked on myself... http://forums.themustangsource.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=22009 I have watched and worked with trimmers for many years, and always admired what they did, and learned a lot... time to try myself! The reducer pulley fitment does not worry me... I do understand your cautioning me without knowing my skill set!! I wish I had access to a big enough lathe to turn one myself! Here are a couple of pics of what we have done so far... My mother has never done more that cushions, and leather clothing, but together we are working together! Some practice stitches or Vinyl... Some thick plastic... An a test piece parking brake gaiter.... Some wavy stitches... too much speed to blame... honest! The pins are there to mark an area that was too flat, and needs some crown or curve to cover the mechanism. We are working on #2 today! Edited November 22, 2013 by Keyair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J Hayes Report post Posted November 22, 2013 Looks good to me. I was able to find an 1 3/4 pulley for at my local hardware store, so if the 2 1/8 doesn't do you may try that too. Nice to have somebody there to teach as well! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted November 25, 2013 Thanks! I have already learned a lot from her! More to come! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stanly Report post Posted November 25, 2013 I'd just to straight to the smallest motor pully u can find- stock speed for a 206RB is 2600 stiches /min. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Update: J Hayes, which store did you find an 1 3/4" pulley? We have Ace Hardware here locally... The 2 1/8th arrived, and I will put it on today and try get a belt measurement to go searching. Back to our test project, parking brake gaiter.. This is how the first one looked when we fitted it... Too tight. We made a second one, with more crown and more generous dimensions. It was better, with more consistent stitching, I still have some mods I will do before I do the final one in leather. Fitting. I think I want some heavier thread, the Cardinal Red v92 Sunguard matches the seating but I have ordered some heavier #138 Cardinal thread, so it will stand out more! Edited December 4, 2013 by Keyair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted December 19, 2013 Oh my... So we got the V138 thread and tried to get the next stage done and are lost... Missed stiches, birdsnests, stitch length varies, and needle thread fraying. We researched and tried swapping back to V69 for the bobbin, with little success. Tried going up to a #22 needle, with no joy. We went thru the machine, and checked the settings as best we could... I have some questions... 1/ The first tensioner disc assembly, the first one after the 3 holes looked like it was assembled wrong... The are 2 concave identical chromed washers with a location slot, and one black smaller concave washer that has a location slot, and a tab in its central hole. On top of that there is the beehive spring and knurled nut. Mine was setup with this black washer at the back closest to the machine body. The assemble manual shows it different, with the 2 identical washers face to face and the black washer on top of them, against the spring and nut. This makes sense. Is that correct? 2/ Found that the needle height was wrong... the manual states that table to needle hole height should be about 22.3mm... mine was over 25, so I adjusted it back to the stated height. Seems to have made it worse! 3/ Stitch length variance. With the stitch length set to maximum, it sews ok on thin material sometimes, but if we try to sew thicker leather, the stitch length gets smaller and smaller... its even worse if we put the smooth bottomed pressor foot on... Why is that? Any thoughts or advice would be welcome! Will go and sew some test pieces and take some photos... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted December 19, 2013 Keyair; It may be time to take or ship the head to a qualified industrial sewing machine shop. Have them correct the tensioner disks and plates, time the feed dog and needle to the hook - at all stitch lengths, tighten loose screws and adjust the walking feet for equal lift, then oil and lube it as needed. Ask them to set it up so that the machine can sew with any thread from #69 through #138, on top and bottom, or explain why it can't handle #138 thread. BTW: I recommend using a #23 needle with #138 thread, top and bottom. A good mechanic will be able to do all that in an hour or two. It will be money well spent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted December 19, 2013 (edited) Thanks, I just don't have the funds for it right now, so I will have to keep working at it. My eyesight is poor at the moment due to an health issue, so I have to use a magnifying glass and its a struggle. I sometimes forget to get the tails of the threads where they should be... What is odd, it today, using #69 top and bottom, it did a great job on some test pieces.... So maybe its me! I will upload some pics in a bit. What adjustments should be made to tension to go from the #69 to #138 thread? Edited December 19, 2013 by Keyair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted December 19, 2013 To change to #138 thread, change to a #23 needle, increase the top thread tension a turn or two and crank down the presser foot pressure adjuster. Also, make sure that both feet go all the way down, alternately. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted December 20, 2013 Thanks for the input Wiz! Here is the tensioner assembly, and the way I put it back... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted December 20, 2013 I decided to reset my head and lay down some stitches for reference... #69 thread in upper and bobbin, #22 needle, on a piece medium thickness suede.. Top... Underside... Double thickness.. Top... Underside... Then I went up to some thick stuff... Top... Underside.. Feeling better I went into a thinner piece of upholstery leather, with first a line of #69... then I swapped the #138 thread in on the top... Wow... Underside.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted December 20, 2013 (edited) I think most of it is my fault... Flushed with success, I went on to take a shot at the parking brake gaiter I was hoping to finish... this is now leather. I seamed the two pieces together with black #69 thread, and it was perfect... The French seam was completed with #69 in the bobbin and #138 in the upper. My seam was a little wider than ideal, but we the stitch was good! Practice, practice! Edited December 20, 2013 by Keyair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted December 20, 2013 Baby steps, Grasshopper. Looking better all the time. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted January 7, 2014 Well, I figured out what was going wrong some of the time... I was not conscious that my knee was resting against the knee lifter sometimes... and that was causing erratic thread tension issues! Moved it and now its better. Added a 90deg binding attachment... The machine continues to miss stitches though, and also the upper thread keeps getting snarled in the bobbing and hook asembly. Being a mechanical mind, I spent a lot of time checking everything. The hook timing was off. The Consew manual states that the when the needle has passed its lowest point and then risen by 2mm, the hook should be in the middle of the needle. This is how far mine was off. Maybe 20deg or 12mm of travel. That was adjusted and is now correct. However I think I found a problem. The Hook is too far from the needle. Consew states that the distance between the needle "Ditch" and the hook point should be 0.05mm to 0.10mm... that is very little! You can see the gap and I measured(with great difficulty!) it at least about 0.20mm, or twice the stated allowance. I changed the needle, but it made no difference. I tried to adjust it, but had no luck, as the hook basket also is attached to the lower needle deflector(not sure of the right term). Looking closer at the hook, I think it maybe damaged or worn. I keep seeing the needle thread coming up frayed, and by carefully watching thru a magnifying glass, this is what I see happening... This is V138 thread... not thin by any means! I think, because the hook tip is incorrectly gapped to the needle, the thread sometimes is picked up correctly.. Like this.. But Sometimes it pinches the thread, and the thread rolls between the needle and hook and misses... Like this.. And sometimes the hook PIERCES the thread and splits it in two... Like this! I am looking into replacing the hook assembly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian1783 Report post Posted January 8, 2014 I notice your thread isn't routed through its final guide, the little rounded arm first thing up the needle. Maybe you have it this way only during your photo shoot. Nice photos by the way! I don't know if your thread routing might be causing your problems, but thought I'd point that out. I've never reconditioned a hook, but I do believe it's an option. I would think it may be preferable to replacing the hook assembly. Ian SF Bay Area http://imcinnis.blogspot.com/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Keyair Report post Posted January 8, 2014 (edited) Well spotted. It was thru there on previous attempts. I also pulled it up on the return path to try to replicate the thread going thru the leather. Thanks for the complements on the photos... simple fixed lens Nikon Compact, but used the Macro... truth is its hit or miss on the autofocus. These are 3 of maybe 25 photos I took! They really are worth 1000 words to describe this! Here is a tighter pic of the hook... looks blunt or dinged on the tip to me... For those who have not seen how this works.... and please correct me someone if I am wrong... The needle, on its downward stroke actually hits the chamfered surface that you can see in the above photo. This part is fixed and does not rotate. The needle is deflected to the left as it continues on its downward path until the thicker tip, eye and thread pass over it. On the returning upward stroke, the thread is trapped between the chamfer and needle and is held steady... this causes a slack loop to form as the needle climbs back up, allowing the hook to grab the thread. My issue with reconditioning or setting the hook/needle gap is this: The chamfered part appears to be part of the hook assembly, you can move the whole assembly away from the needle, and increase the gap, but when I tried to decrease it, and the gap does not change because the needle just deflects more. Edited January 8, 2014 by Keyair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wizcrafts Report post Posted January 8, 2014 Replace the hook! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
