Sides

[Red Cent]

I know, but I still feel a little backwards in asking. I went to the leather shop yesterday and purchased three medium size double shoulders in different weights. I helped carry them to the wrapping table and laid out there was beautiful piece of leather about twice as long as the double shoulders I buy. And it was half again as wide. It was a "side" that was "domestic". There were imports of sides there also. The square foot cost was almost the same but, of course, the total would be much bigger. From what I have read, the side includes some belly. Is that correct? I make single ply 8-9 belts, double ply 8-9/5-6 belts, cowboy holsters, and revolver and pistol holsters. Where will the belly part fit in? I have also read that the top part of the side is very good for belts. Is that correct? In my little niche, what are the positive and negatives of buying the side?

[Red Cent]

And, I cannot find a "contact" icon so I will ask here. My "next paragraph"/enter key will not work anywhere on the forum. Works everywhere else. Anybody have the problem?

[BigJake]

Since you are in the neighborhood of Zack White where you buy most of your leather, you have the advantage of looking and feeling the hide before purchasing. That gives you a tremendous advantage over most of us who have to purchase online and sight unseen. I to make gunleather and for the most part purchase from W&C, RJF Leather, Weaver, SLC, and only buy sides in saddle skirting in 13/15 and then there is more waste than I would like. If I had the luxury of picking my sides I would be a happy camper. By the way, I have enjoyed your many holsters and belts which you have posted pics on this forum........very good work.

[Red Cent]

Thank you Big Jake.

Other than knowing that the hide I saw was almost flawless, I have not much knowledge of what to use for what. I have read, and wanted confirming, that the center back is the best for belts because of its consistent thickness. 'Course I use the double shoulders now for holsters. That leaves the sides (lettered D & E on my printed chart) and the belly (designated by a F & a G). I understand the belly is too supple? for holsters and belts. If I could make good use of the belly parts I would not have waste and could justify buying a couple of sides at a time.

A thought. To get different ounces/weights, do you buy multiple sides? Sorry. My ignorance regarding the hides is embarrassing.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Red Cent

[Red Cent]

C'mon people. Surely we have more experienced people who can help. Unless you don't want to, of course.

[BigJake]

If the square foot cost is about the same as the double shoulders you're now buying, why not just stick with that. Some suggestions for the use of the belly that come to mind is Kydex lined holsters, knife sheaths, spur straps, to name a few. You recently post a pic of a shotgun belt which you made for RRR.....the copy of the Doc Knoper design. That belt would lend itself to belly leather. Another thought you may consider. Since you've indicated you're thinking of starting a leather craft business this year, buy some sides and give them a try as a "Startup Expense." Your accountant would know where to claim that on your Income Tax.

By the way, I only buy sides in saddle skirting thickness, 12 oz and above. Wickett & Craig will "Plate" any hide you order for a small extra charge. That will reduce the soft temper of the belly to some degree, but will certainly compress the fibers in the hide and improve the temper. Of coure you will not be able to inspect the hide before purchasing, they will send you whatever is on the top of the pile.

[Red Cent]

"If the square foot cost is about the same as the double shoulders you're now buying, why not just stick with that."

Other than seeing so many square feet of beautiful leather, I guess I will stick with the shoulders.

[JLSleather]

Red:

If I had to use ONE word to recommend a fella what makes (largely) holsters and belts for them, "backs". THE best part of the leather for belts is in the butt, and running from the butt to the neck.

Leather, like wood, has a grain, and a grain direction. Strongest in the center of the hide, along the spine, and butt to head. We've all seen some really nice stuff made out of shoulders, and most of us have likely used them one time or another. Theory, if you cut from the same hide (all else the same) then the BACK or BEND leather will be stronger down teh length than SHOULDER leather (since the double shoulder strip is cut "across the grain, allowing more stretch).

Realistically, if you're making belts double layer and stitched (and not tooled extensively) then the shoulders are fine. There's a LOT of strength built into multiple layers (and the thread becomes a "layer" for strength).

I buy sides in lighter weights - 3/4 4/5 - because I can use the belly leather (which is much more porous and loose grained) for small projects that don't get stressed much. Wallets, coin things, portfolio interiors, and belt linings. That said, I'm talking about lining belts that are carved, lined and stitched with a TOTAL thickness of about 10-12 oz (the lining is intended to be PURDY, not carrying any weight). Above about 5 oounce, I buy backs, because I know I won't use up the smaller pieces and can't be bothered to split it down. So, the belly is no use to me, thus I buy the 'back' (the side, with the belly cut off).

Reason I say backs: The best belt leather comes from the BEND, which would be from the tail to the shoulder. But suppliers price by this "cream of the crop", too. Buying the back gets you the belt bend, plus the 'single shoulder', which as you already know is fine for holsters. If you're dyeing rich browns and blacks, perhaps no matter. The advantage of usig the backs is that you have a belt and a holster cut from the same hide - which then should dye the same. And form the same. And stitch the same. And...

[Red Cent]

Thanks JL. I have been reading about the bend and double bend which is, apparently, part of the back. Or butt. Or sides. (tongue in cheek) As in most endeavors, there is a lot to learn. And, I guess, that is what leatherworker.net is all about.

Now to leather. I use 8-9 and 4-5 for holsters. When I purchase hides I usually pick up a 4-5 and a 8-9 double shoulder. Comes out pretty even.

If I buy a side, can you get an 8-9 and another side in 4-5? I ain't gonna get a splitter. At least not yet. I suppose this sounds juvenile, but I am still learnin' at 72 .

[JLSleather]

Yeah, most foks have sides in like 2/3 oz up to heavier skirting in the 14/15 range.

Just a matter of keeping in mind that the belly of a cows hide, much like foks in general, tends to be a little softer and stretchier. Likely fine for linings or projects that dont get a lot of stress put on it. Not so good for holding sharp detailed form either.

HO stocks weights, W&C will split it to the weight you want, even Tandy carries several weights. And there are grades in the sides, just like the shoulders.

The reason I balk at buying sides (with the belly) -- you know that looser-grained slightly spongey stuff at the corners of yer shoulder leather? Imagine 5-6 sq feet of leather that's a bit worse than that.

One more 'for info' thingy.... if you have the room for the belly, almost a toss-up to take it or not. They're gonna charge more for the backs per sq foot. Depending on where you buy it, 5-6 feet of leather is gonna run $40 (ish). So, if they're gonna charge $40 to cut the belly off, might as well take it.

And one bitch and whine remark. Usedta be that foks would cut a straight edge down one length of the hide for you, just cuz you asked. Nowadays, they want a fortune for the smallest "extra". Remember when you usedta do things like that just because the guy would return the loyalty and get his leather from you all the time? ....

[oltoot]

I'm 71 and not taking on any new things. Leather just happens to be my first (or maybe 2nd or 3rd) love, its getting harder and less necessary to remember but since you said you were thinking about a leather business, that is really the answer to your original question. While you are just getting started and since you can pick your pieces, if the shoulders let you get statrted then stick with them for awhile. As you get into doing a wider variety of things, you will find that you can use a variety of leather and that is what the side provides. It is the whole store for the rounded craftsman. Shifting to sides as your primary source will increase your investment in materials but also increase your flexibility. It will also probably increase your waste a little at first but that could be a plus. I have found that 4H kids can extract a big dose of delight out of stuff I am oversupplied with. I don't see my grandkids often enough to get my fill of toothy smiles so that can fill a gap. AND while I'm dishing out opinions, figure on biting the bullet for an Osborn 84 or 86 knock-off splitter pretty soon. It will do a lot to help you produce smooth and uniform results with any material and find uses for a lot of pieces that would otherwise be waste. JMO

[Red Cent]

Thanks for the sage advice. And I am listenin'.