Tracym Report post Posted March 5, 2014 So I have an upcoming project (kangaroo lace). The braid will start as a 4-strand round braid. Then, I need to switch to a flat braid for around 4 inches, then go back to round. However, 4 strands will not make a wide enough flat braid - I'll need 6 or even 8 strands. Can I get some advice as to when/how to splice the strands in and out? I don't want a bunch of thick round braid, but I suppose a tiny amount might be ok. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megabit Report post Posted March 5, 2014 I'd use the extra strands as a core for a few inches on both sides of the flat. I think it would be better to use it as core for the whole length but that may make it thicker than you want? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 5, 2014 Hmm that's an idea, I wouldn't have thought of using it as a core. No, I can't have the thickness the whole length of the braid. This is a collar for a very very small dog, so I can't get much volume in anything. I need the flat part so it's wider and gentle under the throat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megabit Report post Posted March 5, 2014 You could try to do like the whip makers do and make your string thinner where it is a core. The reason I like using it for a core the whole length is so you are less likely to pull it out of the splice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 5, 2014 Oh gosh, yes, that would be lovely but may be beyond my skills. It would have to be really tiny, this is supposed to be quite thin. I'm not sure any significant core would be ok. But I will think about it. As it is a tiny dog, it probably won't be under much stress and likely to pull out - at least I hope not. I was wondering if I should try to splice it in and actually round braid it - but I'm not sure if having the thick round braid there would be good. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyout Report post Posted March 5, 2014 Could you braid the flat part first and drop/hide strings for the round braid? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluerider Report post Posted March 6, 2014 How about using a small oval piece of leather for under the chin. bring the four strands down to the oval and transition to two strands on each side as an edge braid. Then once you edge the oval transition back to a four strand round. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KnotHead Report post Posted March 6, 2014 What are you trying to make Tracy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 6, 2014 Skyout, I could braid the flat part first, yes. But wouldn't dropping the strings (in the round braid) and adding them be basically the same thing? I was thinking of doing it that way (one or the other). Bluerider, that is an interesting idea also. What are you trying to make Tracy? This is part of a fancy show lead. For a very small dog, they want a wider more comfortable part at the throat - approx. 4" x .5". It isn't exactly, but if you think of it as a collar that is close enough. So there is the very small 4-strand round braid, then they have requested a 1/2" wide flat braid, and then back to the round braid. I measured just flat braiding the 4 strands, and that is only 1/4". So I know I need to add strands - I just want to do it as smoothly as possible. Since this is a tiny dog, I don't want a thick round braid, or at least not for long. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KnotHead Report post Posted March 7, 2014 Let me see if I'm getting this picture right. You need a flat braid 4 inches long by a 1/2 inch wide? Correct? Then you need to go back to a 4 strand round braid? Correct? How's this all going to come together at the point of the round braiding? Is this one of those leads you put through a loop, like a cinch type lead, or something else you have in mind? I would consider doing a 6 strand flat braid and then dropping enough strands to do your 4 strand round braids. Brian... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucksnort Report post Posted March 7, 2014 Is a button over the intersection a possibility, or what about doing two four strand braids side by side, using the 8 stands for your flat braid & then back to two four strand braids. I'm like Brian, having trouble picturing where the two ends go beyond the flat part. Never fear, we'll come up with a plan for you even if it drives you crazy. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 7, 2014 (edited) OK, I think I will need to get more specific I don't think buttons or anything are a possibility, the whole point of the flat braid is to make it more comfortable on the teensy dog's neck at the throat. And as it is for the show ring, it needs to be a narrow braid (4 strand) especially since it is a small dog. Basically, it is going to be similar in construction to the lead in this photo - except that instead of the satin pad, she wants the 1/2" flat braid. Which I am guessing may take 8 strands (6 at a minimum) since 4 strands only makes 1/4" wide. Now that I figured out how to make pineapple knots, I will probably cover the back braids with those. But anything 'lumpy' around the dog's neck would probably not be an option. Edited March 7, 2014 by Tracym Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I think you may need to work from the middle out. It is easier to securely bury a strand then it is to add one. You could also start with wider strands, make your flat braid, then cut the strands narrower for the round braid. This would allow you to carry the full plait count to both ends. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I agree with working from the middle out, I can see how that would be better. I do not cut my own lace though, so cutting it thicker is unfortunately not going to be the answer in this case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KnotHead Report post Posted March 7, 2014 I agree with Sovarn on the account of, it's easier to drop strands than to add. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 7, 2014 So do you think it would be a better to have the extra strands as the core for a short bit? Or just drop them from the round braid quickly? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KnotHead Report post Posted March 8, 2014 I'd run a core for a few inches or so. This will give the braid some static to hold the dropped strings in place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted March 8, 2014 That might be a little hard to do. If the collar is only 4-5 inches long and you figure 1.5-2 inches of flat, then you only have about 1.5 inches for each side of round braid. I am not sure what size lace you are planning on using. 1/8" might let you do a 6 strand flat and go right into a 6 strand round. No dropping strands and that size lace should keep you close to your target diameter for the round braid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucksnort Report post Posted March 8, 2014 A little out of the box, but what about doing a flat four strand & then working a flat pineapple knot over it for added width? Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 8, 2014 No, the total collar part is more like 16" (it's actually more than a collar, it is a big loop) - I need 4" of flat braid. Not sure if extra core for more than an inch or so would add too much volume, I would have to try that and see. I am using 1/8" lace, but a 6 strand braid would be way too thick - show leads (even for big dogs) are very fine, and especially for the little one 4 strand is the maximum. Hmmm flat pineapple - I've never done that - is it just a regular pineapple, flattened out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sovran81 Report post Posted March 8, 2014 I misread the size portion. Apologies. However having just measured a recent project of 4 strand, these are the figures I got. Strand width 6/32, finished braid diameter .172" As you can see the strand width is 1/16 wider than yours and the finished diameter is well under 1/4" You might want to do a couple inches of 6 strand braid and measure it to test. I think you might have room for 2 more strands that are narrower than mine and keep it under 1/4" . I am only suggesting this to help keep it simple and reduce the chance of added/dropped strands from coming loose in a finished product. Now I do split my strands to .8mm, if yours are much thicker it may not work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 8, 2014 I have made six strand braids, I have some here. But these show leads need to be really thin, the 6-strand are too thick for this application. Thank you for all the suggestions though. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bucksnort Report post Posted March 9, 2014 Tracy, Yeah it would be the same as a round pineapple only worked flat. That's the beauty of the pineapple, or turksheads in general no matter the interweave, is that they can take on almost any shape. I think if you closed it in around the round braid on each end it would stay in place. Anyway, you have a good variety of ideas. Good luck & let us know how it turns out. Buck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracym Report post Posted March 9, 2014 I will post it when completed - may be a little while though. That is an interesting idea, the flat pineapple. I think it would be fine closed up, as you say, and it's easy enough to anchor the ends of the strands to a braid anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
troy Report post Posted March 23, 2014 (edited) Not sure if this will help or not, but made a pdf of braiding a dog coller - flat, round to flat braid - a few years ago - http://www.mtn-m.co.uk/web%20components/whips/dog%20collar.pdf Edited March 23, 2014 by troy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
