When Is It Ok To Give Up?

[OurJud]

This might seem like a rather odd question, but at what point is it OK to sit back and say, "OK, this is never going to happen." ?

I've been trying to make a minimalist wallet for months now, had dozens of disasters and spent God only knows how much on leather - most of which has been wasted.

I set out to make a stitchless one because I was afraid leather stitching would be too difficult. When I failed at that I tried using my mum's dress making machine to make one with stitching. That too failed because my mum's machine wasn't up to the task.

So then I accepted the fact that the only way this was going to happen was if I had a go at stitching. To my surprise I've taken to this far better than I thought I would and am not totally unhappy with the results. But I'm still not happy with any of the wallet's I've made.

I ditched the idea of coming up with an original concept, because quite literally every conceivable wallet design has now been done - particularly since the minimalist / slim wallet exploded onto the scene through the Kickstarter funding platform a few years ago, but my efforts so far look tatty and homemade.

Now I accept that many leather enthusiasts aim for the 'homemade' look, but it's not what I'm trying to achieve. I want a clean professional look. I want to make something that looks like it was bought from a shop... something classy rather than the Frankenstein's monsters I've built.

It's now got to the point where my original idea of making half a dozen of these wallets and selling them on Etsy, has now become an obsession that I need to free myself of. I have no desire whatsoever to make any more than one of these damn things now, but I'm now reaching the point where I don't know if I've got it in me to even do that.

[Matt T]

Well, I would say that if it isn't fun for you anymore, then maybe you should find something else that is. It takes a lot of practice and knowledge to perfect your techniques in order to end up with exactly what you want...

[DavidL]

go take a leather working class if u can. If not pick one thing like saddle stitching and stitch 100m worth of thread and compare ur last 1m to ur first 1m to see any progress

[TomG]

Post some pics and ask for critique... Maybe its something as simple as edging that is stopping the finished look

[BigGriff]

I think you can do this. May take a little more practice. Like I mentioned in one of your other threads, I made my own minimalist wallet and it definitely looks homemade. I learned a lot though, took notes, and will do better on the next one. The key for me is that while I am making something, I am enjoying this hobby. If it was causing me too much stress, I would stop. If it has gotten to that level for you, I would suggest you do the same.

I will say that I think you can do this. The journey is half the fun.

[shtoink]

I would say that maybe a temporary shift on projects might be your best bet. Sometimes, when you are having trouble getting just the right look or effect, it's best to shelve the project and work on something else until you've had time to cool off and regroup your efforts.

Another thing that helps is to study items that have the look or effect you are aiming for to see how it is done. If the clean and professional minimalist look is what you are after, the first name that comes to mind is a specific member here by the name hunio.

There are many more, but here are a few that I found with a quick search that are good examples of his work. Maybe you'll find some inspiration.

Small Wallet

Small Leather Tray

Making of a Small Card Case

My New iPhone Case

Edited March 27, 2014 by shtoink

[LTC]

leathercraft isn't for everyone. when it stops being enjoyable and fulfilling, i think it's probably time to move on. there's a ton of different crafts you can do with your hands if you want to try something else. But if it's frustrating it wouldn't hurt and can only help to set it down for a while (or longer) and try something else.

[WScott]

You gotta walk before you run

Takes some time , effort and failures to get better.....at anything

[humperdingle]

Post up a Pic of some of your work AND a Pic from the internet of what you're trying to achieve.

Edited March 27, 2014 by humperdingle

[Hi Im Joe]

You gotta walk before you run

Takes some time , effort and failures to get better.....at anything

This is so true. I tried to make a bifold wallet for my father in law and learned that i bit off more than I could chew. I was too caught up in figuring out how everything was going to go together instead of worrying about technique. I then made a simple card wallet and found it was so much easier to focus on the little details that aren't automatic when you are new to a craft.

[WScott]

On a more constructive note:

Post some pics of your work, get some feedback and let's see if we can get you some help and or inspiration to move in a better direction.

You may just be stuck in a rut, focusing on the wrong thing and making the same error.

Don't get too frustrated, try to learn from what others can see that you may not.

[OurJud]

Thanks, everyone, for the encouragement and advice.

I'm not going to address everyone's post (it's 3:35 in the morning here in the UK and I need my bed).

Tom, if by edging you mean the way the layers of the leather sit together along the edges, then I would certainly say you've hit upon an area that really does make my finished pieces look very tatty. Truth is I don't really know how to finish the edges. I always seem to end up with horrible yellow glue showing between the leather where I've glued before stitching. I also have a couple of those beveling blade things, but I don't like the way it exposes the naked leather underneath because it then contrasts against the rest of the wallet which is dyed. Plus the fact that I struggle making the bevel look neat, especially when you come to a section that has more than one layer of leather. It's also worth mentioning that I don't dye the leather, I buy it already dyed which means I have no way of dying the edges or bevels to the same colour.

shtoink, some of those jobs by hunio are certainly very nice and do have that nice clean 'shop bought' look I'm seeking.

WScott, lack of patience (in terms of the learning curve) is one of my biggest faults. I just don't have it in me to spend decades learning a craft that is, ultimately, a hobby I will probably grow bored of at some point in the future.

To those who suggest I post up a pic and links to the kind of thing I'm hoping to achieve, I will certainly do so (probably tomorrow). For now, though, I can say that most of the stuff on this website serves as my inspiration (especially the Atelier Pall - Double Snap Vertical Wallet):http://www.minimalwallet.net/

Thanks again for all the replies.

Edited March 27, 2014 by OurJud

[camano ridge]

Ourjud, This is going to be a little blunt: I have watched your posts since you first joined this site. You came into this with an attitude that you were going to do your own thing and you could do it as good or better then most without really knowing much if anything about leahter work. All that has happened to you is that you have had a reality check. Welcome to the world of leather working. We are not a bunch of reeses monkey doing what we seen some one else do we are people that have learned skills through trial and error. We all have boxes of (not mistakes) learning opportunities. Most of us in making our first project and getting it the way we wanted spent ten times or more what it would have cost to buy the ready made item.

Take a deep breath. Decide if you want to try again. This time pick a basic project. If you are still into wallets. Search this site for wallet pattern or buy a kit from Tandy. It won't be what you want, however the pattern has been drawn for you or the kit has been put toghether for you to give you a starting point. By doing the project using someone elses pattern or kit you will learn the basics. You will also get an idea how the pattern was developed. Use the lessons learned toward preparing yourself to tackle the project you ultimately want to do. Take it in levels of learning If you understand you have to learn the basics before you attempt your ultimate goal you will have less frustration and enjoy it a bit more.

I have to say that with comments like " I realize that many enthusiasts aim for that homemade look" and "but so far my efforts look tatty and homemade" (thats because they are) you demonstrate a bit of an attitude that may stand in the way of you learning.. Loose the snobbery. Look at why your projects look tatty and home made pick a few points and refine those then pick another few points and refine those until you have what you are looking for.

As has been mentioned post pictures of what you have done let the people here be your mentors. Open your mind to their comments. No one will make fun of them but we will pick them a part with the intent of showing you how to improve what you have done.

If you decide to go forward with leatherworking we are here for you.

[WScott]

Ourjud, This is going to be a little blunt: I have watched your posts since you first joined this site. You came into this with an attitude that you were going to do your own thing and you could do it as good or better then most without really knowing much if anything about leahter work. All that has happened to you is that you have had a reality check. Welcome to the world of leather working. We are not a bunch of reeses monkey doing what we seen some one else do we are people that have learned skills through trial and error. We all have boxes of (not mistakes) learning opportunities. Most of us in making our first project and getting it the way we wanted spent ten times or more what it would have cost to buy the ready made item.

Take a deep breath. Decide if you want to try again. This time pick a basic project. If you are still into wallets. Search this site for wallet pattern or buy a kit from Tandy. It won't be what you want, however the pattern has been drawn for you or the kit has been put toghether for you to give you a starting point. By doing the project using someone elses pattern or kit you will learn the basics. You will also get an idea how the pattern was developed. Use the lessons learned toward preparing yourself to tackle the project you ultimately want to do. Take it in levels of learning If you understand you have to learn the basics before you attempt your ultimate goal you will have less frustration and enjoy it a bit more.

I have to say that with comments like " I realize that many enthusiasts aim for that homemade look" and "but so far my efforts look tatty and homemade" (thats because they are) you demonstrate a bit of an attitude that may stand in the way of you learning.. Loose the snobbery. Look at why your projects look tatty and home made pick a few points and refine those then pick another few points and refine those until you have what you are looking for.

As has been mentioned post pictures of what you have done let the people here be your mentors. Open your mind to their comments. No one will make fun of them but we will pick them a part with the intent of showing you how to improve what you have done.

If you decide to go forward with leatherworking we are here for you.

THAT is great post Camano Ridge

Well put

[Mudruck]

There are a few excellent points here...

We all have boxes of (not mistakes) learning opportunities. Most of us in making our first project and getting it the way we wanted spent ten times or more what it would have cost to buy the ready made item.

• Exactly, I started out wanting to make a holster for myself at the start. Thinking back on what I spent to make that holster... I could have easily bought a completely custom holster and more then likely had enough left over for about half to three-quarters of another pistol.

Take a deep breath. Decide if you want to try again. This time pick a basic project. If you are still into wallets. Search this site for wallet pattern or buy a kit from Tandy. It won't be what you want, however the pattern has been drawn for you or the kit has been put together for you to give you a starting point. By doing the project using someone elses pattern or kit you will learn the basics. You will also get an idea how the pattern was developed. Use the lessons learned toward preparing yourself to tackle the project you ultimately want to do. Take it in levels of learning If you understand you have to learn the basics before you attempt your ultimate goal you will have less frustration and enjoy it a bit more.

• There are times that I have put a projects on hold that have been driving me absolutely batty for a while. It usually leads to a point where you are working on something else and get a 'Eureka!' moment that helps you along in the original project and it also gives you something else.... practice. He wasn't kidding when he says that we all have boxes of 'learning experiences'. I would seriously doubt any worker on here that would deny having a healthy stash of projects that ended up in the 'lesson' bin.

As has been mentioned post pictures of what you have done let the people here be your mentors. Open your mind to their comments. No one will make fun of them but we will pick them a part with the intent of showing you how to improve what you have done.

• This one right here is huge. Very few times have I found a group of people that are as welcoming, helpful and genuinely great people as we have here. This community of leather-addicts is a group that if you listen and really open yourself up to some great criticism, can really, really help you grow in the art.

If you decide to go forward with leather working we are here for you.

[OurJud]

So much for going to bed :D

Thanks, camano. I would have to read back through my early posts, but if I ever gave the impression that this was going to be easy and that I could do it better than anyone else and without help, then that certainly wasn't my intention. I would never be so arrogant to believe such a thing.

Also, if I offended anyone with the 'homemade' comment, then again that wasn't my intention and I apologise to anyone who read it that way.

What I did mean, however, was that I suspect I'm not your average leather enthusiast in terms of taste. I think for most, it is the typical leather 'styles' that appeal; the heavy saddle stitching, the intricate tooling and stamping, thick burnished edging.

But my tastes are different and I don't really think it's fair to say that this fact makes me a snob. I like leather, but only as a material. I like it's feel and durability, but I don't like leather products per se. If I could come up with a stitchless design, I would, because I don't particular like to see stitching - especially heavy thread hand stitching (hence my thread from last week asking if gluing alone would suffice).

As I've already in this thread, I will post up my atrocities tomorrow.

Edited March 27, 2014 by OurJud

[WScott]

GO get some sleep, take some pics in the morning and let's go from there.

You are a good guy, I have enjoyed our interactions on different threads. You are just young and of that immediate generation us old farts pick on.

There are so many people with different knowledge, skills and styles willing to help, so don't sweat it.

Scott

[LTC]

there's nothing "snobby" about wanting your leatherwork to look like it was made by a professional instead of a three year old. don't let anyone try to tell you that and even if it was true which it's not just be true to what YOU want your finished product to look like. i personally want all my work to look like it was made by someone that knows what they're doing and takes pride in the finished product and there's nothing "snobby" about that.

but like i said before it's not for everyone and you definitely have to have patience to learn various techniques correctly and then to execute those techniques correctly every time. it takes strict attention to detail also. i'm not trying to fault you because i struggle with these things also, but in the end the huge time i invest in my projects is worth it to me to make sure they look presentable. it probably isn't a bad idea to step away from it for a while and clear your mind. then if or when you come back to it later maybe you'll have a different outlook on it.

[OurJud]

Thanks again everyone.

Just about to go take some snaps. I'll try and put some indicators on some of the pics to show the areas I'm unhappy with / don't like.

Images 1 and 2: (as 3 and 4) but made entirely from the 1mm sheepskin. Edge slightly better, but the floppy / soft properties of the sheepskin creates a 'flimsy' and cheap appearance.

Image 3: Card holder with cash strap. One piece of 1.5mm cowhide folded in half to form main pocket. Frequent use card holder pocket on front, cash strap on back. These additional parts are made from 1mm sheepskin.

Image 4: Shows the edge of the cowhide card holder. Glue can be seen between the leather's edge and stitching. Don't like the untidy look of the edges.

Images 4 and 5 are about the closest I've come to success. They are made from 1.5mm cowhide and elastic. I used my mum's sewing machine (which just about managed the job). It looks okay-ish on the surface, but is untidy inside where I had to construct elastic loops half way down the main body of the elastic, in order to stop the cards falling right through (the main elastic is just one loop which is stitched to the front and then fed through slats cut into the back piece of leather.

Also, getting the correct leather is proving almost impossible. My nearest Tandy is 150 miles away and I don't know of anywhere else that sells leather. This means my only option is online sellers and the images they provide.

If I get leather that gives me the firmness I want, it's too thick. If I get leather that gives me the thickness I want, it's too soft and floppy. I'm not in a financial position to start going to tanneries to ask them to thin leather for me, so please don't suggest that as an option.

Edited March 27, 2014 by OurJud

[DavidL]

The problem is not your ability it is the materials you are using. I would recommend scraping cash together to get some veg tan leather and have a hand at edge burnishing, you will also see a big leap in quality.If you must use chrome tan leather skiving the edges and rolling the edges will make a big difference.

I also have a shipment coming to me from the u.s for kip leather (stiff vegtan leather - 1mm-1.2mm)

[camano ridge]

Ourjud, thanks for posting pics. Your desire to achieve a look that you want is not snobbish, it was the general attitude of your post which you have clarified. I won't be long winded on this one. With the pictures you posted it gives a better idea of what you are trying to achieve. What size thread are you using both hand and in the machine? On the item in picture number 4 you said it is cow if it is veg tan try some sand papar on the edges. You will be able to smooth the edges and remove some of the sqeeze out from the glue. Then try burnishing the edges, if you don't have a proper burnsher for right now you can use a hardwood dowel or plastic rod. Dampen the edges and then rub like heck (don't apply a lot of pressure) you are creating friction to burnish the edge. You will not achieve your ultimate goal with the project you have there, however you can use it as a practice piece to improve the things you don't like about it.

Edited March 27, 2014 by camano ridge

[humperdingle]

Yep, veg tan will give you better results. Have a look at Nigel Armitage's YouTube video of small wallets if you haven't already - it'll give you an idea of how much 'better' veg tan is to work with.

[WScott]

I will pile on here and say get a veg tanned hide as well. In those first three pics that chrome tanned goat is the problem, as you get to the last wallet, things improve dramatically!

So a better material, some edge refinement and hand stitching and you are there.

Don't give up you are very close. I second the Nigel videos. Go on You Tube and watch all of his project videos. You will pick up a ton of tips and can converse with him as well

Good luck man

Edited March 27, 2014 by WScott

[OurJud]

Thanks.

Incidentally, the cowhide I mention is pull-up... don't know if that's the proper name for it.

As I've said before, the reason I've avoided veg-tan is because it seems to be very difficult to get it pre-dyed. Sure, I could dye it myself, but as far as I can gather from other posts on the subject, it doesn't stop there because it would then need to be sealed and whatnot... this is just more expense that I don't have the funds for.

camano, not exactly sure what thread I used. It's just some nylon stuff my mum had. I'm a fairly strong guy, but I can't snap it with my bare hands, so figured it would be suitable. I do have some 0.8mm tiger thread, but it gives too 'chunky' a finish for my tastes.

If I had made this, I would be as pleased as punch. I love the look and design (yes I know the stitching is very obvious, but it works). Perhaps someone could tell me what type and thickness of leather he's used. It says in the description on the website that it's made from a single piece of leather, but I just can't fathom the construction.

Edited March 27, 2014 by OurJud

[treybecca]

The recent pic you posted looks like perhaps 3oz oil stoned hide ( different folks call it different stuff). The biggest issue I see with your original product is hands down the edges everywhere. The stitching looks god, but the edges being rough, glue showing and lack of quality leather is what I see when I view your product.