Sewing With Tiger Thread- Thread Is Too Thick

[DavidL]

Has any one who uses .8mm tiger thread for 7spi find that the front and the back look very different. The back side of the leather the stitches are very straight and bunched together, like its one continuous line with no spaces, but the front is slanted and spaced out. Is it because tiger thread is too thick and .6mm should be used?

My Awl i use is very thin at 3mm. I used a 5mm awl and the stitches don't change.

Why is the backside not angled at all? I understand the front and back are suppose to look different but the back is not spaced out.

[Macca]

pictures would help

Sounds like technique more than thread thickness though

0.8mm is not too thick for what you want to achieve, in fact, thread thickness will have little to do with this.

[DavidL]

pictures would help

Sounds like technique more than thread thickness though

0.8mm is not too thick for what you want to achieve, in fact, thread thickness will have little to do with this.

Holes look all the same distance before i stitch looking at the backside. Holes are made by dixon pricking iron pricked through the leather then an awl is pierced 45 degree angle straight through.

[Macca]

No, I mean your stitching technique.

That's likely the cause of poor appearance on the back

[DavidL]

My technique seems fine to me. I go left needle priority, right needle on top of the hole and pull straight parallel to the floor.

Im looking to get something like this for the back side

Edited April 15, 2014 by DavidL

[Macca]

Well, its not down to the thread, so theres only a few variables left ?

[DavidL]

awl - 30mm quite small - my 50mm awl makes the front side stitches more spaced. The backside looks identical to the ones in the picture.

leather - stiff 3/4 oz veg. On 1.5 ounce veg the back looks off, much better on the 3/4 oz, but still not great.

[Matt S]

Do you cast your thread over each stitch? See Nigel Armitage/Dangerous Beans' videos on saddle stitching for an excellent example.

[DavidL]

is casting thread and throwing the loop the same thing? I've seen his vids. the thread does not go into the loop it goes above the loop so the thread aims down wards. Also he goes right needle left needle i go

left needle first. I find when i go from front side first the back side has the angle and the front is straight

Edited April 15, 2014 by DavidL

[stevieboy7]

if your sides are different, then your sewing technique is wrong, listen to Macca.

there are a lot of variables in sewing, in the horse, what angle the holes are (pointing up and away from you? or up and towards?)
are you stitching towards you? away from you?
Left hand priority? right hand priority?
and you putting the needles in the right orientation? Are you throwing a loop correctly?

Once again, this can only be answered by photos... and you testing every single possible combination.

[DavidL]

I have been listening to him. I'm just trying to get more information thats all. I've tested all the possibilities over the 100 plus hours i've put in. The backside however only ever looked proper while using poly round thread 1mm. Whatever you see in nigels videos is the same technique I'm using, with the exception I'm right handed and the left needle goes in first. I also don't throw loop because I'm trying to get that hermes angled backstitch and after viewing footage they also don't throw the loop.

It could be left to two variables my awl - need a wider flatter awl and the leather - need some sort of goat vegetable tanned . Another possibility is that hermes workers use an inverse pricking iron and hit it from the backside that they do not show in the videos. Any one have down the infamous hermes stitch (none of the thread touches the opposite thread) or do I have to spend the 12 grand to learn from a hermes worker do you think?

[cjmt]

I have been listening to him. I'm just trying to get more information thats all. I've tested all the possibilities over the 100 plus hours i've put in. The backside however only ever looked proper while using poly round thread 1mm. Whatever you see in nigels videos is the same technique I'm using, with the exception I'm right handed and the left needle goes in first. I also don't throw loop because I'm trying to get that hermes angled backstitch and after viewing footage they also don't throw the loop.

It could be left to two variables my awl - need a wider flatter awl and the leather - need some sort of goat vegetable tanned . Another possibility is that hermes workers use an inverse pricking iron and hit it from the backside that they do not show in the videos. Any one have down the infamous hermes stitch (none of the thread touches the opposite thread) or do I have to spend the 12 grand to learn from a hermes worker do you think?

I don't think they stitch mark the reverse, very difficult to not make a mess of it. i think they are just good at it. Stitching takes years to perfect and to make every stitch the same you have to do exactly the same thing every single time, thats much much harder than it sounds.

This is a prototype of mine looking at the reverse side. It hasn't had the edges or card slots skived as its just a mockup.You can see I haven't got the stitching quite right in the thicker areas (tension by the look of it) but its probably as your aiming for in the centre. Its just normal saddle stitch with a reasonably well struck blachard pricking iron

[DavidL]

The issue is partly because i haven't put my years in. It's not that the backside is sometimes angled and off, its always straight, even using .6mm at 7spi. There is no angle for some odd reason, is it because I'm pulling straight out? I've got no more leather pieces to practice on until my shipment arrives so I can't try it out. Blanchard or dixon iron for me gives the same issue regardless of thread thickness- tiger or fil au chinois.

[cjmt]

The issue is partly because i haven't put my years in.....

This - it takes years and dedication. Just because someone makes something look easy doesnt mean it is! (Armitage et al..)

Charlie