Newbie in Michigan. Need help with holster

[Snakebyte]

I am new to the site, and have found enough info to give me a headache!

I am really excited about trying this, and really want to focus on holsters and sheaths. I have read a ot of this site, and am still having trouble grasping the pattern making, leather choices, and basic tool requirements.

Any help(or kick in the pants in the right direction) is greatly appreciated.

I would like to make a pancake style holster(eventually inlayed with exotic of some sort, but want to practice on the basics first)

What leather is best? Where can I get it? remember it needs to be dumbed down, I am still new at this (or at leats decent, Keep in mind that I have very little play money)

Are there any hand tools that are better for stitching?

What cement is best?

Thread type?

Thanks for any tips, and advice.

A little background on me:

I live in Brighton, MI and have been doing retail for the last 4 years. I have always loved firearms, and shoot regularly. I started the beginning of this year doing Armed Protection as well, and have a desire to make better concealment and duty gear for myself. I am a certified computer technician, and have my own small business selling gun parts, holsters, duty gear, pepper spray, surveillance gear, etc.

Thanks!

Edited October 13, 2008 by Snakebyte

[Srigs]

Welcome to the forum.

Start by reading all the posts in this section and asking a bunch of questions.

Suggestions...

1. Don't stitch to close to the gun/form because we have all thrown out holsters that were too tight.

2. Start with a half a shoulder and determine what types of holsters your interested in making.

3. Hand stitching is much harder than rectangle 1 and 3 tang punches for making stitching holes and getting straight stitching lines with a plastic mallet/hammer. The all in one stitching awls are not a good solution IMHO.

4. Dyeing and top coats use scrap leather to try different things.

5. Hot wet forming is what stiffens up the leather.

6. Use contact cement not rubber cement

7. I like using thicker stitching thread for my hand stitching and synthetic pre waxed works great.

8. Go to a Tandy leather store and see if they will do a class (many people started that way including me)

Hope this helps.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Srigs

[TomSwede]

Hi and welcome to the board Snakebyte!

Vegetabilic tanned leather I think will be the best solution for you. It is easy (well, everything is relative) to mold and like Srigs said hot water makes it stiffer when dried. Boiling water is not a good idea. The grain side will curl up on you.

A stitching groover might be a good idea if you plan on hand sewing, just don't ask for my help with it (as I just posted a long post about the troubles I'm having with mine) still, grooves for the stitching to sit in makes all the difference but I think the simpler one from Tandys is hard to maneuver.

1/8" I think might be a good thickness for the backside of your holster and prolly the outside to. Use the object of desire and place it on a piece of cardboard and draw a line around to get a nice shape you like and don't make it to tight. Use the cardboard as a template. This will function as your backside and not be molded so no need to worry about it getting too small. For the outer side you will need to make an oversize leatherpiece wich you can mold over the gun. A modeling spoon might be a good aid here, and strong thumbs.

When you have molded it to shape you will be able to spot and mark up a stitching line and tack this piece to a wooden board and let it dry and later on you stitch where the tacks were so so stitching will hide it. When dry you can trim the edges with a utility knife so that it matches the backside.

I'm no expert on holsters but this is the basics of the pancake type holster as I've read about it and I've tried it once with a simpler object wich came out nice but I did go with a much thinner leather for the outer piece as to get the hang of the molding part better so maybe try with a thinner leather test piece first. It should set you off in the right direction when you get hands on with it.

http://www.tandyleatherfactory.com/

Try locate a dealer close to you and go there and check out stuff or surf around the site. The groover, modeling spoon, needles, stitching awl. It's all there and there are some good books from Al Stohlman, kinda old but still holds a lot of god stuff about stitching, constructing and all you need.

Tom

[Surveyor]

Welcome aboard also.

Yes, there are good books at Tandy, even a kit on hand sewing. There is also a book on holster making and it goes into some depth on making patterns, although not pancake or slide types. This particular book also goes into detail on leather weights, linings, stitching, etc.

You may want to invest in a Pancake holster to use as a pattern. Start with your favorite handgun and reverse engineering would give you a starting point for patterns for other handguns. Don't get frustrated, as said before, we've all had mistakes to learn from on different projects.

[Snakebyte]

OK, thanks for the advice.

First, just looking at the tandy site, can someone please point me in the right direction for their leather? They have a few that mean nothing to me

Here is their list:

Leather

Chap Leather

Embossed

Exotic

Hair on Hides

Latigo

Lining

Rawhide

Remnant Bags

Saddle Skirting

Sole and Armor Bends

Suedes/Splits

Tooling Shoulders, Bends, Bellies, Etc

Tooling Sides

Upholstery

Utility and Oily

Next, What s the best way to wet form? (just hot tap water, almost boiled, luke warm) How long should it soak before, and should I leave the form in after?

Should the holster be sewn together before forming, then add the stitching around the pistol?

What kind of bone should I use? I have a pancake holster, and can use it as a base model.

What should be used for adhesive? I have seen barge cement mentioned a lot.

What should be used for lining? Is the lining just suede, and is it glued or sewn in (or both?)

One last question for now. What do I need for sewing? (by hand) what will make it easier? I see lots of needles and sinew/string types. What would be best for me(your opinion) I would prefer black thread, as thats the color I want the holster to be. (guess I will need dye too, do you prefer water based, or laquer based?

And as a side note, how are the inlays attached? Are they sandwiched? Holster, exotic, "border piece" And stiched/glued?

The attached photo is exactly what i want to make. It looks sewn around the edge. Would it have been just cemented and sewn to the top of the completed holster? Would the edges need to be sealed?

I REALLY appreciate all your help.

I am also a blue gun dealer (I also sell asp products, they make red guns, and batons, etc) I will get anyone on this site great prices, if you let me know you are a member here, and verify that with your username. Just tell me what you need, and I will get you a price.

[Rayban]

Snakebyte...there's a Tandy store in Westland. I'm in that area (Livonia) on a daily basis. If you ever want to meet there, I'll be glad to show you around and point you to the basic essentials to get you started.

I do mostly knife sheaths and I just got a side of leather in to get me going on holsters.....

I'm in the market for a gun cleaning kit for my new Ruger Single Six, so why don't you shoot me a price.

Thanks,

R

[Snakebyte]

Snakebyte...there's a Tandy store in Westland. I'm in that area (Livonia) on a daily basis. If you ever want to meet there, I'll be glad to show you around and point you to the basic essentials to get you started.

I do mostly knife sheaths and I just got a side of leather in to get me going on holsters.....

I'm in the market for a gun cleaning kit for my new Ruger Single Six, so why don't you shoot me a price.

Thanks,

R

Sounds good, I will let you know when I hope to be near there!

As for the cleaning kit, hit my site in my sig line, and see if i have the brand you are looking for. I have access to otis(expensive) and I also sell hoppes, and kleen bore. And MUCH more.

[Surveyor]

Tandy sells a book titled Basic Leathercraft. This gives a rudimentary discussion of the types of leather; bellies, shoulders, etc. as well as the basics of tooling leather. This book is usually included in the kits Tandy sells, but would be a good investment on its own for your reading. I've been told Bianchi has a DVD on holster making although I haven't seen it. You can look at simplyrugged.com. The owner, Rob Leahy, specializes in pancake holsters and has some good photography as well. This may give you some ideas.

Edited October 14, 2008 by Surveyor

[Crystal]

Hi - I don't know anything about what you want to do but I saw this the other day on the front page of Leatherworker in the "More Tips and Tricks".

http://www.leatherworker.net/HolsterHenry.htm

Lots of other goodies there in the tutorials. Read it all!

Smartflix has dvd rentals on making holsters and sheaths and on leather work.

Good luck and have lots of fun!

Crystal

[Snakebyte]

some ebay leather

leather on ebay

Woud either of these be suitable for holster work?

Can anyone reccomend a needle, thread and the other specific tools for hand stitching?

I have a couple library books I rented about leatherworking, and I am reading them. But I figured someone may have some suggestions about it.

Thanks!

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

I would recommend this as a good place for you to start.

http://www.eleatherworks.com/product.php?p...=503&page=1

Decent holster leather that isn't too expensive, and enough there to let you mess up once or twice.

Edited October 16, 2008 by BOOMSTICKHolsters

[Snakebyte]

Thanks for the link. Any tips on specific needles to use? I have been told waxed linen is good for thread. Thoughts?

[BOOMSTICKHolsters]

I'm definitely not a hand stitching expert. When I hand stitched my holsters, I used a lock stitch so I had a sewing awl and a punch. That was a difficult way to do it, and I would actually recommend the two needle method.

I suggest you give Kevin a call at Springfield Leather and tell him what you are trying to do, and ask which needles and thread you will need. He will take good care of you.

[Snakebyte]

OK, in the second post, you mention rectangle 1 and 3 tang punches for making stitching holes and getting straight stitching lines with a plastic mallet/hammer.

Are these an alternative to an oversticher, and punch/awl? Is this easier to keep straight? I plan on doing the saddle stich(I think) the one with two needles. Thanks, Jeff

[WaG35]

OK, in the second post, you mention rectangle 1 and 3 tang punches for making stitching holes and getting straight stitching lines with a plastic mallet/hammer.

Are these an alternative to an oversticher, and punch/awl? Is this easier to keep straight? I plan on doing the saddle stich(I think) the one with two needles. Thanks, Jeff

What they are talking about would be in place of the stitch wheel for marking the stitches. Personally I don't punch my holes, I drill them with a 1/16th bit after grooving and marking w/ an overstitch wheel(I think mine is 5 stitches per inch) Hope this helps.

Edited November 20, 2008 by WaG35

[Lobo]

I like simple solutions for simple problems. Here are my suggestions, based upon 36 years of holster-making (and using them during my 24 year law enforcement career):

1. Leather: for lighter-weight pistols, 6-7 oz. vegetable tanned works well; for larger and heavier pistols, 8-9 oz. provides better service over the long term.

2. Tools: sharp utility knife (an Xacto knife can be handy as well), overstitching wheel (6 stitches per inch works well), stitching groover, stitching awl, harness needles, waxed thread (synthetics like polyester or nylon work very well). These are the basics; I talk a little about others as we go along, but you can improvise.

3. Execution:

-trace the exact outline of the pistol on heavy paper (manila file folders work well)

-draw two parallel lines horizontally through the pistol outline at the point you wish for the holster to ride on your belt. Note: belt size is critical to how the holster will ride, so make belt loops or slots to the exact size of the belt to be used.

-draw the outline of the holster shape. Note: allow clearance around all handgun "controls"; you don't want your holster to pop the magazine release or slip the safety off. Also, I like to allow as much clearance as possible around the handgun grip so that a proper "shooting grip" can be taken during the draw, and you don't have to shift the pistol in your hand prior to engaging a target.

-measure the thickness of the pistol, divide that by two, then draw an outline around your pistol tracing to identify your stitching lines.

-transfer your pattern onto your leather. A standard #2 pencil works well to mark your pieces for cutting.

-cut your pieces, mate them together, and cement them in the areas where they will be sewn together. Contact cement works best, but for a one-time or occasional project good old Elmer's Glue works quite well. Note: when cutting, don't try to force it; two or three passes with the knife will result in a better job than one heavy push that will rip and tear all over the place.

-lay your pattern over the outer holster piece, use the overstitching wheel to mark the stitching lines around the pistol. The points on the stitching wheel will mark right through the manila file folder material, leaving an easy to follow pattern on the leather.

-set your stitching groover to about 3/16", then cut a stitching groove around the perimeter of the holster on the outer side, then use the overstitching wheel to complete the stitching pattern (from the lines around the pistol, connecting with all the perimeter to be sewn).

-use the stitching awl and mallet or hammer to pierce all stitching holes

-using two harness needles and your thread, saddle-stitch the pieces (one needle at each end of about 5 or 6 feet of thread, through the first hole then matching up the thread on each side to even lengths, then through each stitching hole with one needle from one side then the other needle from the other side, pulling snugly every second or third stitch to a uniform tension). Note: make your final stitch along an edge, pushing the needles through between the leather to the outside, then tie a knot inside the two pieces of leather. The small "bump" of the knot can be smoothed out during the wet-forming process, and you won't have to worry about the stitching coming loose.

-for a pancake design, now is the time to cut your belt slots. Try a 1/4" hole at each end of the slots, then use a sharp wood chisel to complete the slots. Then dress the edges of the cuts to a smooth finish.

-after stitching, thoroughly wet the sewn holster, then force the pistol into its position inside. Using a smooth, rounded tool (like the handle of your overstitcher), gently and firmly work over the formed holster to force a very tight molding around the outline and details of the pistol). Note: try and leave the gun unloaded during this operation! Also, now is a good time to insert your belt through the loops and pull those into the final form desired and needed.

-allow the holster to air-dry with the pistol in it for an hour or two (depending upon weather and humidity, this time can vary. I live in Colorado, where we have very little humidity and the leather dries quickly. You may have to adjust).

-When the leather has begun to dry, remove the pistol and allow the holster to complete drying. This allows a small amount of shrinkage, thus a tighter final fit. Final drying will probably take 12 to 24 hours. Clean and oil the pistol now, don't let it rust up on you!

-good time to dress all of your edges, removing any irregularities. A belt sander works great. A small drum sander chucked into a drill press works wonders in tight areas. A nice even surface is what is required. Careful with the sanding process, it is easy to build up too much heat and scorch the leather.

-burnish the edges, if desired. A wooden thread spool with a bolt or machine screw through the hole, then chucked into a drill press, will polish the edges very quickly, and the little lip on the thread spool will work the cut edges down very nicely.

-when fully dry, apply any dyes that you wish to use and allow that to completely dry.

-I like to apply a moderate amount of neatsfoot oil compound at this point for long-term protection of the leather. Using a swab or brush, apply the neatsfoot oil liberally, then set the piece aside for an hour or two to allow the leather to fully absorb the oil. Too much oil will make the leather limp, thus pretty useless for the intended purpose, so don't over-do the oil.

-apply your final finish. I like Fiebings Bag Kote for an eggshell luster. If you want a higher gloss, try Leather Sheen.

Final step: strap it on your belt, insert your sidearm, and call it a done deal. Assuming you are going to rely on this rig for self-defense, practice with the holster and your pistol (unloaded, of course) for 5 minutes every day until the act of drawing the pistol becomes part of your memory, as familiar to you as picking your nose. Should the day ever come when you have to deal with a threat warranting deadly force, you don't want to have to stop and think about what you are doing; you want it to be an automatic response, smooth and natural.

I hope this helps you. When I started in 1972 I didn't have a clue. I just kept making another one until I got what I wanted. Other cops starting coming to me and wanting a holster for their new gun, so I kept getting more experience. Now I turn out 12 to 20 per week, and I still keep coming up with a little innovation from time to time. Keeps an old retired copper out of trouble, and provides a little income to cover my beer and poker money.

My latest project: a holster for a retired copper who can't wear a belt because of an old back injury. I just love a challenge now and then! Pictures attached. Horizontal shoulder holster with thumb-break, suede leather shoulder piece to carry the weight gently, 1.5" suspender strap with alligator clips to connect to the waistband. Very comfortable!

Best regards.

Lobo Gun Leather, serious equipment for serious business.

Colorado Territory, USA

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[Snakebyte]

In post 5, I added an attachment to show the holster I would like. Any idea on the edge? How in the world do they get it like that? I am working on some stingray now, and just get white spots on it...

[MBOGO]

It appears to be a finely finished edge, maybe on some sharkskin. Sanding and burnishing. How's it coming?

[trugley]

I am just trying this out myself and found this site that may help you a bit. http://unblinkingeye.com/Guns/Holsters/holsters.html