Help Picking Out A Stitching Chisel/iron

[tossik]

Hi everyone,

I have been reading the forums for a while now, and been slowly practicing leatherwork. Thank you all for your posts, makes learning so much easier!

I have a question about stitching irons. I want to buy one but with so many options and styles, I dont know what is right. I know that Vergez Blanchard Pricking Irons are the best, but I cannot afford $200 per iron. I went on ebay and saw these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Steel-Stitching-Lacing-Punch-Chisel-Sets-2-5-10-prong-tooth-leathercraft-/181412079460?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3d00a764

Has any one tried them before? are they any good? is there any other kind I should get? Should I get diamond style or flat?

I am mainly doing modern style wallets with this thread, some knife sheaths, bets, and dog collars.

Please help!

Thanks!

[Basically Bob]

I certainly don't have any issues with the Dixon irons I have been using

[DavidL]

The difference of dixon to vergez is the vergez prongs are hand shaped (which is why the price is more).

I have dixon and vergez, vergez is better. With dixon you can shape the prongs with a sharpening stone and needle file to get the proper size.

From dixon factory they can sharpen by machine to get a smaller size prong.

[Camerius]

I'm using the Seiwa pricking irons from goodsjapan.jp, and quite like them. Maybe have a look at those?

[Not Awl Together]

I've been using the C.S. Osbornes in 6, 7, 8 spi. and pricking wheels with a sharp diamond awl for finer work.

IIRC, the Osbornes are priced around $50-$60 U.S. apiece.

[Hi Im Joe]

You should first decide what type of iron you want.

The vergez, dixon, and osborne irons mentioned in this thread are meant only to mark the leather. You then punch your holes with an awl.

The japanese ones (I have a Seiwa that I absolutely love) are meant to be punched straight through the leather and actually create your holes.

If you decide on the former my vote is for the Osbornes. American made and much less expensive than the alternative.

However, I have both the Osborne and the Seiwa and I think the Seiwa is much more effective for someone who doesn't have a ton of experience with hand stitching.

Its just more consistent. Which leads to better stitching.

[Macca]

Only issue with the Seiwa is you can't get small ones, if you want a decent SPI you are stuck with the marking/awl types.

I don't think Osborne do very high SPI irons either.

One comment regarding the dixons, you have to ask for thin teeth on the lower SPI tools, dixons teeth get thinner the higher SPI so make sure you tell them what you want, they will finish them to your requirements at no extra charge ( dixons are hand ground, just like the Blanchards, not sure where the idea they are machine made came from)

[Not Awl Together]

Just curious,

What is the height of the dents the Dixons or Blanchards make in the 8, 9, or 10 spi ?

You are correct about the Osbornes not going into higher spi's..... 8 spi is it to the best of my knowledge.

I'm interested in possibly going to Dixons at some point down the road in the higher spi's

Thanks,

N.A.T

[tossik]

As a beginner that will be making wallets and belt, what spi iron would you guys recommend I get?

[Macca]

Just curious,

What is the height of the dents the Dixons or Blanchards make in the 8, 9, or 10 spi ?

You are correct about the Osbornes not going into higher spi's..... 8 spi is it to the best of my knowledge.

I'm interested in possibly going to Dixons at some point down the road in the higher spi's

Thanks,

N.A.T

I'll check when I'm back in the country later in the week (out on business at the mo)

I have dixons in 7,8,9 & 10

I use a wheel for 12 & 14, will be getting the 12 irons soon, sadly they don't make 14's any more so stuck with the wheel.

As a beginner that will be making wallets and belt, what spi iron would you guys recommend I get?

Depends what look you are going for... Refined classic euro

Or the chunky rough American

JUST JOKING !!!!!!!

[DavidL]

Only issue with the Seiwa is you can't get small ones, if you want a decent SPI you are stuck with the marking/awl types.

I don't think Osborne do very high SPI irons either.

One comment regarding the dixons, you have to ask for thin teeth on the lower SPI tools, dixons teeth get thinner the higher SPI so make sure you tell them what you want, they will finish them to your requirements at no extra charge ( dixons are hand ground, just like the Blanchards, not sure where the idea they are machine made came from)

Is this confirmed? I just look at the iron prongs and they look exactly the same, like it was made by machine. To do all that work by hand and sell it to a wholesaler at 40-45 dollars

for an hour of work or however long it takes wouldn't make sense business wise.

Vergez had some marks that I can see were made by hand and prongs were slightly different, that the dixon don't have.

If dixon was made the same way as vergez then they charge way too little at 67 dollars for a 7 SPI w/ 8 prongs, where a vergez w/ 8 prong is 180 dollars. The one I gotten may have been the "b" selection since the handle has a hump in it, the dixon wasn't bought from dixon directly. Vergez is worth the extra money since I'm looking to sell my dixon and my 4 prong vergez for a larger vergez since the dixon quality was not how it was in their prime. At first the dixon was usable, now it creates more issues as I am perfecting my skill that are more aparent

Edited June 2, 2014 by DavidL

[tossik]

Macca, lol I like your joke. But no, nothing bulky, I like clean smooth lines, almost like machine sewn. I will be making sleek, modern looking items.

What is the best place to buy irons such as dixon?

[DavidL]

Macca, lol I like your joke. But no, nothing bulky, I like clean smooth lines, almost like machine sewn. I will be making sleek, modern looking items. What is the best place to buy irons such as dixon?

abbeyengland was where I got my dixon, it is the newer modern dixon. The prongs are double the size vergez so you have to file it down. Dixons are less than half the price for double the prongs compared to vergez.

The older dixons are better quality, and vergez is comparable to them, id recommend you get the better tool and keep it for years.

[Macca]

Well if you take your iron into dixons to get it thinned you see the bloke taking it to a grinder & thinning it by hand/eye, so I'd say that was hand made !

If you look at the teeth, you don't see machine marks unlike those cheap Chinese ones.

Don't compare UK & French pricing, salaries / cost of living is quite different between the two countries, also, Dixons are typically down to earth tools for the saddlery trade, Blanchard have a bit more marketing power behind them, basically they charge what they can get away with, very good tools but very, very expensive.

Macca, lol I like your joke. But no, nothing bulky, I like clean smooth lines, almost like machine sewn. I will be making sleek, modern looking items.

What is the best place to buy irons such as dixon?

What country are you in ?

abbeyengland was where I got my dixon, it is the newer modern dixon. The prongs are double the size vergez so you have to file it down. Dixons are less than half the price for double the prongs compared to vergez.

The older dixons are better quality, and vergez is comparable to them, id recommend you get the better tool and keep it for years.

You can ask dixons for thinner teeth, they don't charge any more for this

[tossik]

If I get two irons right now, what spi should I get from a maker such as dixons?

I am in the Northern USA.

[Macca]

Not sure where to get over there.

For sizing, 8&10 would be my choice to start

Or...hmm.. Maybe get a 7 & 9 ?

You can probably guess this is very much a personal choice thing...

[DavidL]

Vergez overcharge since hermes and louis vuitton use it and they are the top in quality in a niche market. But they are reasonable since the tools last decade.

Vergez takes it an extra step after they grind it down on a grinder and finishes it with a metal file, which was I believe how dixon use to do it in the past, not any more though.

The vergez whole tool has a v taper and works to distribute the force better and the metal is also bevelled.

In my opinion buy once and you don't have to deal with selling your old pricking iron to buy a vergez. You may like the dixon tool however as its personal preference.

[Macca]

Sounds like you got a bad one David.

All my dixons are like that, nice v taper with perfect teeth alignment.

I posted a close up here of ones I recently bought, I'll try and find the post.

[Macca]

Here it is

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=51392#entry327700

[DavidL]

The one I received has the taper as well. the stem is rectangular and bulges slightly when it gets to the taper. The V taper from the side view also isn't even, so when I hit the iron it won't distribute evenly.

[Not Awl Together]

I'll check when I'm back in the country later in the week (out on business at the mo)

I have dixons in 7,8,9 & 10

I use a wheel for 12 & 14, will be getting the 12 irons soon, sadly they don't make 14's any more so stuck with the wheel.

Depends what look you are going for... Refined classic euro

Or the chunky rough American

JUST JOKING !!!!!!!

Much appreciated Macca, and thanks for posting the link to the picture of your iron(s).

On an aside, I originally noticed on my Osbornes that as the spi's got higher, the pitch/angle of the dents become more vertical at each size while the dent height remains the same. Roughly a 1/8 inch or 3.5 mm give or take.

Since I've never had a Dixon or Blanchard in hand, It's led me to question whether the stitch dents becoming more vertical is unique to just the Osbornes and whether the Dixon/Blanchards are ground and filed such that the angle of the dents remains constant throughout the line as one goes up higher in spi count?

I appreciate your insight and comments and look forward to hearing what you have found once you have returned.

Kind Regards,

N.A.T.

[Hi Im Joe]

Only issue with the Seiwa is you can't get small ones, if you want a decent SPI you are stuck with the marking/awl types.

I don't think Osborne do very high SPI irons either.

One comment regarding the dixons, you have to ask for thin teeth on the lower SPI tools, dixons teeth get thinner the higher SPI so make sure you tell them what you want, they will finish them to your requirements at no extra charge ( dixons are hand ground, just like the Blanchards, not sure where the idea they are machine made came from)

Yeah they max at 8.5 stitches per inch.

[kwelna]

Hi everyone,

I have been reading the forums for a while now, and been slowly practicing leatherwork. Thank you all for your posts, makes learning so much easier!

I have a question about stitching irons. I want to buy one but with so many options and styles, I dont know what is right. I know that Vergez Blanchard Pricking Irons are the best, but I cannot afford $200 per iron. I went on ebay and saw these:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/White-Steel-Stitching-Lacing-Punch-Chisel-Sets-2-5-10-prong-tooth-leathercraft-/181412079460?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a3d00a764

Has any one tried them before? are they any good? is there any other kind I should get? Should I get diamond style or flat?

I am mainly doing modern style wallets with this thread, some knife sheaths, bets, and dog collars.

Please help!

Thanks!

In answer to your initial question, I have both sets ~7.5 SPI and ~6.5 SPI and they are good for the price you are paying. I like mine and have had no issues with them. I wouild like the "teeth" to be a bit longer.

[Cletus2014]

Not to reopen an old thread, but I have a question about the Osborne irons that I've seen some here - Joe? - comment on. I bought one of these, the 609-7, from the CSO Tools site for around $55 and I found that the length of the dents (don't know how else to put it) was far too long to get an accurate stitching line. The marks appear to be slanted properly, but when stitching I've had to try to "aim" the awl for the top of the dent/mark, which lead to much inconsistency in the stitch line.

I spent several hours with a file, on each of the two side of the iron, if you can picture that, and was able to get the length of the dents down to a somewhat more usable "width". Still not perfect though and stitch lines are still inconsistent. With even more file work I might be able to approximate the fine, narrow stitch track, or line, or whatever you want to call it, of the Blanchard irons, but I'm not as optimistic as I once was. I'm about to give up and spring for a set of #6 VBs at this point.

Does this sound like your experience with the CSO chisels?

[billybopp]

Word to the wise:

If you intend to get irons in different sizes, stick with the same brand ... Or check them out carefully. I recently decided to give irons a try, so bought some cheap ones from China to see if I'd like them, and I did, although the quality was OK but not great. Then, I decided I wanted something in a little less SPI for other types of stitching, so ordered some Seiwas from GoodsJapan. When I got them, I tried them out and they are a different style and better quality. But I soon realized that something was odd: For lack of proper words to describe it, the holes in one set leaned forward, and the other set leaned backward!! I was floored .. It's just something I hadn't given any thought to! While I can adapt my stitching to work with either of these as long as it's consistent, it's a pain to try to adapt between projects!!

On another note, I've bought a few things from GoodsJapan and have had good luck, however, you'll probably want to pay for the "standard" shipping rather than the free "economy" shipping. I've waited for more than a month with economy shipping, as opposed to a week or so for standard.

Bill

Edited June 15, 2014 by billybopp