Singer 292 Or Walking Foot Machine?

[sproggy]

I live in Thailand and am about to buy my first sewing machine. I've been advised to buy a used Singer 292. I have read about the benefits of a walking foot machine and am quite intrigued to use this for sewing leather bags mostly from chrome tanned leathers. However, I would like to have the ability to make some non-leather items from materials such as canvas or even light weight cotton (such as a packaging bag for the leather bags) and I am told that a walking foot machine will not be able to sew the lighter weight material which is why the Singer has been nominated. Understanding my dilemma, does anyone have a recommendation? I'm not sure what kind of walking foot machines they have available but I'm pretty sure they have some Mitsubishis in their warehouse. Is my only real option two machines?

The other question with the machine is the clutch motor or a used Panasonic servo (I don't know the model). The price for the Singer with the clutch motor is about $300 and the same machine with the used Panasonic servo is about $500.

Thanks in advance for any help and happy sewing all!

Sproggy

[Wizcrafts]

There are ways to "dumb down" a walking foot machine, to allow it to sew thinner cloth. It will never be as smooth at it as a bottom feed only garment machine. But, a garment machine cannot be smartened up enough to sew real leather. In reality, you may need two different machines: one for leather; one for cloth.

Try a walking foot first and see if it can sew your cloth bags.

[sproggy]

Thanks, Wiz, you're amazing at helping folks. I'll do what you say and try to sew the light material with the walking foot. I'm going back on Monday; they've got to pull the machines out of storage. This shop even has some Pffafs (sp?) and Adlers kicking about.

Is the Singer 292 a nice machine? I couldn't find amy info on the site here using the search function so I'm assuming it's not used much in the States...or else it's dog...?

[Wizcrafts]

I think that the Singer 292 is just another high speed, straight stitch, garment factory machine. Expect to sew at 5000 stitches per minute (83/second) to keep the oil circulating to the extremities. The stitch length will be about 8 to the inch, using #46 bonded, or T50 cotton thread. It is meant for flat work cloth.

[sproggy]

That just sounds scary! I think when I mention to these people that I would like the ability to sew light fabric that I'm skewing the argument the wrong way. My main focus is making bags, leather with cotton lining (some veg, mostly chrome tanned) and from canvas or other similarly thick fabric. I will give them a call and in my best Thai ask them to prep a triple-feed walking foot for Monday (the #1 on your list of walking foot machines) so I can take a look. It seems to me I would be better off spending my money for a good walking foot machine and maybe later on getting a lesser single foot for the light material if needed. I'm not planning on making thousands of items of anything so I don't need the best machine ever made with the highest price take. I think middle of the road is adequate.

Thanks so much Wiz. I'll report back on what transpires.

Cheers, sproggy

[Wizcrafts]

What I would do in your situation is buy a walking foot machine to sew the leather parts together. Then buy a good quality domestic sewing machine, new or used, to sew the linings and cloth interiors together. Join the already sewn interiors to the leather edges on the w.f. machine. You may be able to do the interiors with a straight stitch machine, which could be an old iron Singer with the motor on the back. I have three domestic machines at home that are only used for light duty flatwork cloth sewing. When business picks up you can buy an industrial straight stitch machine.

[sproggy]

Wiz, that's sort of exactly what my brain had reasoned in the last 24 hours and your post confirms it. I'm assuming tomorrow they're going to show me a Mitsubishi w.f. machine as that's what seem to be prevalent at their shop. I have looked at your pics of your National so I've got my fingers crossed that I'll be able to tell if it's a compound triple feed or not. I haven't been able to get that translated into Thai so it might be tough to communicate what exactly I want. I would think I can get a used Juki or Chinese brand straight stitch pretty cheaply.

On to the servo motor. I saw the Techsew 550 servo motor sells new for only $149 (I had assumed it would be far more expensive...but of course I'm in Thailand not in Canada or US and the voltage here is 220, anyhow). They are asking more than twice that for this used Panasonic servo (as of yet I know nothing about it other than the brand and price). But seeing that the Techsew is so cheap it's making me confused as to what to do and why the high price (though since Panasonic is Japanese it's got a higher import price to Thailand). They do mention that I could get a new Chinese made servo for about $140 but they didn't seem too keen on the quality. As I mentioned, I'm pretty inexperienced with sewing and don't want to be cursing all the time as I ruin another piece of leather due to too much speed.

[Wizcrafts]

Sproggy;

You can see my National 300N walking foot machine in close up action, on YouTube (link). All real walking foot machines work like this one. The feed dog on the bottom (not shown) works in concert with the moving needle and inside "vibrating foot" to move the material, as the outside presser foot lifts to let it go.

When you go to the dealer to look at machines, this is the action you want. They may try to steer you towards a less expensive machine that has dual feed: feed dog on bottom and claw teeth on outside presser foot. Avoid it like the plague if you intend to sew leather that would be ruined by tooth marks on top.

Edited June 8, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[Wizcrafts]

As for the motors, try out various machines that are equipped with different motors. When you find happiness, ask how much that motor will be with the machine head you are going to buy. The whole package will be assembled for you and setup. You should ask for basic starter instructions, so you don't jam the machine or sew your fingers together.

It may turn out that the motor you like best costs more than the one they normally sell on out the door machines. Pay the extra money to get the better motor.

[sproggy]

Awesome Wiz! I'm going to show them that video tomorrow and tell them that's what I need. I'll let you know what happens with the motors. I get the feeling servo's are not so popular here...

You have my gratitude, thanks so much, Sproggy

[sproggy]

A new wrinkle: I'm seeing now that a cylinder bed machine is recommended for sewing bags which is what I'm planning to do. So is that what I need to be looking for, a cylinder bed?

[Wizcrafts]

A new wrinkle: I'm seeing now that a cylinder bed machine is recommended for sewing bags which is what I'm planning to do. So is that what I need to be looking for, a cylinder bed?

That would be the best type of walking foot machine for sewing bags, purses, pouches and cases, or arm holes on vests and heavy garments.

[Techsew Ron]

A new wrinkle: I'm seeing now that a cylinder bed machine is recommended for sewing bags which is what I'm planning to do. So is that what I need to be looking for, a cylinder bed?

our most popular machines for sewing bags are light/medium leather machines that can sew up to about 3/8" thickness, with a 10.5" cylinder arm, reverse, servo motor, with or without large bobbin. You can use up to #24 needles with #210 thread, which is more than enough for most types of leather bags.

[sproggy]

Well that was a long and interesting day, yesterday. I ended up buying the Singer 292 and adding a JACK servo motor which is Chinese made. The machine cost about $270 and the motor $130... It's a 550W motor but seems so small compared to the huge clutch motor that it replaced, which worries me a bit. However, it didn't have any trouble going through the leather I put under it and that's before having the pulley changed to a 2-incher (comes with what looked like a 3 inch pulley, to my eyes). It was also the only servo motor he made available to me. For what it's worth, I didn't feel the slowest setting was slow enough. It felt comfortable stitching on an open piece of cloth and leather but I tried to think about detailed stitching around curves and corners and how slow I might want to go. I also had in the back of my mind your comment Wiz, about your National doing a stitch a second or whatever it was...and I wanted to have that option. The best I could do to slow it down more was change the pulley which he will do for me. I didn't get a chance to try it with the smaller pulley...

The Panasonic servo I had been shown previously, according to the owner who wasn't there last week, is a dog and he didn't recommend it.

I don't have the machine yet as it needs to be shipped to me, probably on Thursday.

I spent a lot of time playing with a Pfaff 335 and really wanted to buy it. However, the price was just under $800 and then I would have added the servo motor; I was afraid to spend that money without shopping around some more though my inexperienced mind was pretty impressed with the machine. It sewed together some 3mm veggie, 1.8mm chrome, and 2 layers or padding with ease (you can actually see this packet of stuff on the left side of the Pfaff photo, in the background). The hardest part was fitting this thick wad under the walking foot.

I am also worried about spare parts being expensive and the ability to have anything fixed (I'm 750 km from this shop). I asked about Seiko and Consew and Mitsubishi but he didn't have any cylinder arm machines at the time...or at least not in the shop, and was pushing me to buy the Pfaff. He actually had two 335s in there so I'm not sure they're running out the door. He did have a Seiko post bed but I didn't look at it. He also had some flatbed walking machines, including a Dorkupp Adler but I was focused on the Pfaff. Strangely, to me, though it had a big clutch motor with a two-inch pulley, much like the Singer before I changed it, it was a lot easier to control and ran much slower than the Singer...

My thoughts are I will play around with the Singer and improve my skills and see what I can and cannot do with it. Also, I'll become familiar with the JACK servo. With more knowledge, I'll reconsider the Pfaff and whatever else he might have. I was also unsure of the price of this machine and the motor so I'll inform myself on that front. I asked about a JUKI 543 which I've read about on this forum but he rather brushed of my inquiry. Thailand is full of JUKIs so I thought I might get a lower price.

Thanks WIZ for your help, and Ron also. I'll do an update when I have more info.

Cheers, Sproggy