210D/6 Nylon Twine....correct For Leather And Which Needle Size?

[sproggy]

Somehow, I ended up with the above mentioned thread. Honestly, I cannot recall who recommended this to me for sewing my leather bags but now I have it in my possession in two colors. The shop where I bought it told me to use a number 18 needle but it hardly fits through the hole in the needle and tears after 3 stitches. Looking on the internet I found a table somewhere indicating that I needed a 23 or 24 needle. If someone could clear up this confusion for me that would be great. Is this the correct thread for chrome tanned leather bags (here in Thailand they call it 1.8 mm in regards to the thickness of it)? And the needle size if it is indeed the correct thread? I have a Singer 292 machine which I just bought and am learning about it as I go, playing with the tension, etc... Will a 23 or 24 needle even fit my machine...? Hmmm, well, I can go out and buy some needles easily enough and try them but some good advice is priceless.

Thanks and cheers, Sproggy.

[Wizcrafts]

Find out (measure) the diameter of this thread, in decimal or metric size). You can consult this thread and needle chart to find the smallest appropriate needle size for your thread.

If the diameter of the thread exceeds 0.33mm, your machine probably can't handle it. You should be able to find a #120 needle (Singer #19). This is about as large as the machine can manage. It would pass #T90 thread, IF the tensioners can tension it.

If my memory serves me still, thread designated as 210/3 is equal to v69 (T70). If true, 210/6 is double that thickness and would equal #138 bonded nylon thread. This requires a minimum #22 or 23 needle and strong tension springs, plus a heavy duty presser foot spring. That is outside the range for your garment sewing machine.

[Wizcrafts]

The Singer 191 and 292 types are high speed garment and drapery sewers. They are meant for use with thin polycore thread (e.g. Tailor Made T27, or long grain Egyptian cotton size T50), with very short stitches (~16 per inch), into soft materials, sewn at unbelievable speeds approaching or exceeding 90 stitches per second.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Wizcrafts

[sproggy]

Hi Wiz,

You're the man! The 210/6 thread is about 1/2 mm in diameter so too big. At least I've got that figured out, with your help. I do have some #19 needles and they fit. It's a little confusing because the terminology here in Thailand is not that of this forum. Maybe it's just metric vs. non-metric but Thailand is a funny place because somethings, fabric for instance, they will measure in feet and yards. But the height of a person is in meters and centimeters and a persons weight in kilos. The thread and needles, well, I don't know which system they are using but for a small thread they gave me something with the number 60 on it which they called "normal" garment thread. I'm using it with a #18 needle which is probably too big but it's working, that is, sewing (though the stitch is somewhat at an angle and not straight across...not sure what accounts for this). I will look for T90 thread if I can figure out what the equivalent is here and use that for sewing my leather. The small poly thread that I'm using for the cotton does not feel nor give the "sense" that it is durable enough for leather goods but it's good for my learning and practicing. I've got the servo on it with a 2 inch pulley so it is nice and slow.

Do you know of any place I can view a manual for this machine? I'm not positive I have it threaded correctly.

I'm already seeing how much easier it would be to sew a bag on a cylinder machine. Do you have any experience or knowledge of Taking machines?

thanks Wiz!

Sproggy

[Wizcrafts]

The 210/6 designation represents the Asian thread measurement system. D means Denier. the rest is unclear to me. I suspect that the /6 means 6 strands of whatever diameter 210 Denier works out to be. I seem to recall reading that Denier might be a weight measurement for X amount of thread, in length. Whatever it means, the fact that you say it appears to be .5 mm means it will only work in heavy duty walking foot, or harness stitching machines. My chart equates .505 mm with T210, or v207 bonded thread. This requires a #24 (metric 180) needle. None of the regular straight stitch machines can use this thead or needle.

[sproggy]

I bought some T90 (I think) which is labeled 30 here. I haven't yet tried it out. The 210/6 thread comes apart as 3 main strands and in turn those 3 strands are woven of how many smaller strands I don't know. But it doesn't show 6 strands which is what I also had expected.

In buying this garment sewing machine, I also had to be careful of my "mentor's" ego. That is, a man that I work with here who is both knowledgable and capable in the world of leather work/sewing machines, etc...wanted me to buy this Singer 292 machine for whatever reason I'm not exactly sure. He seems to be quite fond of it though he doesn't have one. If I hadn't taken his advice, I knew that he would have felt slighted and perhaps refuse or drag his feet in helping me in the future. And since I do have some use for this garment machine it made sense in the big picture to follow his lead. I can purchase a walking foot machine once I get the hang of this one.

Thank you Wiz.....Sproggy

[Wizcrafts]

Your Singer 292 is still a very good garment machine. It can be used in a dry cleaning and tailoring shop for repairs and alterations. Gown and formal wear shops can use them to make dress garments. High end suit shops need to custom fit suits and this machine works fine on suit cloth.

One way to get it to sew some leather, without compromising its real purpose, is to power it with a servo motor having a wide range of controllable speeds. I own a Family Sew 550 servo motor that is easily controlled from 1 to 60 stitches per second. Replace your clutch motor with one of these, after finding one setup for your local voltage and frequency. Most of them come with a 75mm pulley. You may need to change v-belts to match the middle position of the servo motor adjuster bolt.

After getting a servo motor, buy a presser foot equipped with little steel rollers. This foot will let leather slide under it, rather than dragging. You will regain lost stitch length, up to the machine maximum. Cranking down on the foot pressure spring will hold down the leather between stitches, while the rollers will allow it to flow during the feed cycle. A set of wider, taller feed dogs and matching throat plate will help pull the leather through better. These dogs will still work with cloth, but not light weight cloth and lining material. Switching between feeders and plates takes about 10 minutes. I actually have three sets of feed dogs and throat plates, for my straight stitch machine.

Make sure there is always plenty of oil in the oil pan. Add oil to the top holes on the machine that may have soft plugs covering them. Load bobbins at full speed on the motor, to distribute the oil.

[sproggy]

Hi Wiz,

Thanks for the helpful tips. I do have a 550W servo motor on it, made by a Chinese company called Jack, with a 2 inch pulley. It doesn't go down to 1 stitch a second but it goes pretty slow and I feel comfortable with it. They also make a 700W or 750W servo... I will look into the roller foot, that's a good idea. What do you mean I will regain lost stitch length? I didn't know I lost it! You mean because the leather drags and so doesn't move as far ahead as fabric would? There is a little bit of an issue of the feed dogs scuffing up the leather on the bottom. I would think taller feed dogs would worsen that situation.

I didn't know about putting oil into the top of the machine!

It doesn't seem to lack any power to pierce leather, that's good!

Cheers, Sproggy