Cuiboli Vambrace

[RuehlLeatherWorks]

10 oz. Veg tanned leather, water hardened. I found out that it's a BAD idea to attempt to water harden stuff that's been pre-dyed with alcohol based dyes since the alcohol affects the temperature at which you need to harden stuff.

[TomSwede]

Those look really great, very nice pattern you got there!

I really like that winered colour and the black borders and clean from tooling makes actually a very beautyful leather art piece.

I have one question. Title says cuiboili and I think you mean cuir boili wich is a method of using hot wax but seems like you did only waterhardening?

Anway they are nice and wax hardening is not really necessary if you don't like to fight with swords;-)

I definetly prefer to harden before dyeing but sometimes I have done dyeing before this process because fine brushing is so much easier when the piece lays flat to the table and one can easily find good support for the arms.

Either way I don't get very much difference in hardness betwen the two methods. I allways dry them stringed to my arm.

Tom

[RuehlLeatherWorks]

Wax hardening for Cuir Bolli is as much a guess as anything else. I've read many pieces on this concept (Especially Cariadoc's Miscellany) and I've got these conclusions:

1) As Cariadoc mentions, wax is a lubricant. To fully harden the piece with wax would really only prevent damage from bludgeoning force. Blades and Points slide right through (I've also test this bit....it's quite right)

2) Cuir Bolli is a technique that is very old. To wax harden pieces into armor in, say, the Bronze age, you would have to harvest a LOT of naturally occuring hives. Wax is far more plentiful today. Everyone had access to water, though not everyone could get a sufficient quantity of wax.

3) I've found that the water-hardened leather is actually more durable than the wax hardened. I've water hardened small pieces to test and whacked away at them with axes. They suffer a bit of a dent, but remain pretty much intact. That said, the impact would certainly have broken some bones, but would have prevented massive injury none the less. The only thing I've run into is that I have to coat the outside of formed surfaces with mink oil to prevent cracking. That said, it makes for a very nice shine as well! :D

[TomSwede]

Wax hardening for Cuir Bolli is as much a guess as anything else. I've read many pieces on this concept (Especially Cariadoc's Miscellany) and I've got these conclusions:

1) As Cariadoc mentions, wax is a lubricant. To fully harden the piece with wax would really only prevent damage from bludgeoning force. Blades and Points slide right through (I've also test this bit....it's quite right)

2) Cuir Bolli is a technique that is very old. To wax harden pieces into armor in, say, the Bronze age, you would have to harvest a LOT of naturally occuring hives. Wax is far more plentiful today. Everyone had access to water, though not everyone could get a sufficient quantity of wax.

3) I've found that the water-hardened leather is actually more durable than the wax hardened. I've water hardened small pieces to test and whacked away at them with axes. They suffer a bit of a dent, but remain pretty much intact. That said, the impact would certainly have broken some bones, but would have prevented massive injury none the less. The only thing I've run into is that I have to coat the outside of formed surfaces with mink oil to prevent cracking. That said, it makes for a very nice shine as well! :D

Thanks for info! The only info I've seen that I remember is that cuir boili is de facto cooked wax into leather. Boili does suggest that something is cooked in the process but maybe it could be descriptive to hot water or drying in warm temperature.

Good pointers and thanks for the info, allways thought I'd have to test this out myself one day. Maybe I can gladly skip that now and focus on other stuff. I'm sliding away from historic leather art more and more.

Tom

[TomBanwell]

I agree that heating the leather in water is better than wax. Cuir boili means literally "boiled leather", with no mention of wax.

[RuehlLeatherWorks]

For anyone interested, these are on eBay right now and going for a very good price.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cuirbolli-Leather-Vamb...A1%7C240%3A1318

[TwinOaks]

In the sense of "boiled leather", this isn't talking about actually placing leather in boiling water. Doing so destroys the leather ( go ahead and get some scraps and a pot of water, 'cause I know you're gonna try it). There was a discussion about that here, maybe pre-crash, wherein it was determined that the term Cuir Bouilli probably describes the effects of soaking leather- like you would for wet forming. Total submersion, and as the water penetrates, air escapes as little bubbles. Hence the term "boiled" leather. Bouilli in French literally means "cooked", and may have developed from soaking in hot water to further strip the tannins back out of the leather- making it mostly tanned rawhide, and rawhide can be very hard. Impregating with waxes is perhaps the best way to waterproof leather while keeping its shape, unlike oil which softens the leather.

Edited November 7, 2008 by TwinOaks

[TwinOaks]

Ruehl, once dried, there's no alchohol left in the leather. What you may be seeing is that spirit dyes tend to dry out the leather, making it somewhat stiffer than undyed samples from the same hide. That would change the 'hardening point' in the water, because a significant % of the tannins are already missing.

[UKRay]

The only thing I've run into is that I have to coat the outside of formed surfaces with mink oil to prevent cracking. That said, it makes for a very nice shine as well! :D

Why mink oil? Surely any properly applied oil finish would work just as well? In fact, I would probably use a proprietory finish as IMHO all that is needed is to 'feed' the leather. I'm happy to be corrected...

[TwinOaks]

Here's what Ragnar at Ragweedforge.com has to say about using melted wax on leather: http://ragweedforge.com/sheath.html

Of course the link leads to his section on making a sheath, but the cuir bouilli is mentioned.