About Stitching (Pic Inside)

[armndrsyhr]

The most noob problem on stitching.

Can you guys help me solve this problem?

How to create same stitching result on both side?

I use 8oz Artificial Sinew thread, 4mm iron pricking, and #1 small diamond awl.

Thanks!

Edited July 2, 2014 by armndrsyhr

[DavidL]

Thread too large and holes are too large.

It depends on what your making or what style you want. Larger thread and larger Stitches per inch for western Ex. .8mm for 7 SPI and 1-1.2mm for 4-6 SPI

Thin thread and smaller SPI for european/japanese style Ex. 7spi w/ .58mm thread or 9spi w/.58mm or .48mm thread.

What you have in the above picture is small SPI and thick thread. The thread you are using will work for 4-5SPI.

Usually people with larger hands prefer to make thicker bulkier projects that fit their lifestyle. Others w/ smaller hands like the Chinese, japanese and females in particular prefer smaller refined goods since it fits within their style.Workers can get more detail w/ smaller hands (most seamstress are women or men w/ small hands) than people w/ larger hands. Which is why most western style is bulkier and french, italian styles are mostly for women fashion goods or fine male goods.

Edited July 4, 2014 by DavidL

[armndrsyhr]

Thread too large and holes are too large.

It depends on what your making or what style you want. Larger thread and larger Stitches per inch for western Ex. .8mm for 7 SPI and 1-1.2mm for 4-6 SPI

Thin thread and smaller SPI for european/japanese style Ex. 7spi w/ .58mm thread or 9spi w/.58mm or .48mm thread.

What you have in the above picture is small SPI and thick thread. The thread you are using will work for 4-5SPI.

Usually people with larger hands prefer to make thicker bulkier projects that fit their lifestyle. Others w/ smaller hands like the Chinese, japanese and females in particular prefer smaller refined goods since it fits within their style.Workers can get more detail w/ smaller hands (most seamstress are women or men w/ small hands) than people w/ larger hands. Which is why most western style is bulkier and french, italian styles are mostly for women fashion goods or fine male goods.

Thanks! yes I think I made the holes become bigger with this thick thread.

Also, I've just ordered myself this thread on Ebay (LINK). They said it's under 1mm thick.

Do you think this thread will be fit on my iron pricking/chisel holes?

For the details, I use Japanese Seiwa & Kyoshin Elle iron pricking/chisel : 4mm / 6,3 SPI

Edited July 4, 2014 by armndrsyhr

[Sona]

Yeah, right.... and maybe I should stop beeing a cabinet maker and go for sth more rough.... sth like roadmaking or whatever. Should fit my body better...o.O

For real David? Sry, but I am just with Joe. Your measurements don´t say anything about your fine motor skills. Otherwise you´d say, that it might be just impossible for me to make sth like a watchstrap, or maybe just one with 4 SPI and sry, but that´s just bullshit.

@TO:
Yes, the thread might be a little bit too thick, but that´s not the main point here. Just have a look on your front side. Stitching with those pricking irons/chisels to create the slanted look follows some pretty basic rules. The main thing for the slanted look is, that you got your holes, pointing in one direction (like this / / / / / / /) and your thread pointing in the other direction (like this \ \ \ \ \ \ \) so it creates a connection between the top of the first hole and the bottom of the second one ( /\/ ) on your front side you stitched in the wrong direction, so the thread connects the bottom of the first with the top of the second one ( /// ). So if you pull it it will slide up in the left hole and slide down on the right one, creating a nearly straight line, So just have a look whether you have to push the second needle over or under the first one! In addition to that there is the common "overhand-knot" you may create to create it on both sides. Just look up nigel armitage on youtube (Saddlestitch in detail) to see how that works. But remember that he is a leftie . Hope that´s sort of understandable

I am still unsure why such a lot of people got problems with this.... often even after watching nigel great video..... (No offense to the TO, not at all!)

Edited July 4, 2014 by Sona

[armndrsyhr]

Yeah, right.... and maybe I should stop beeing a cabinet maker and go for sth more rough.... sth like roadmaking or whatever. Should fit my body better...o.O

For real David? Sry, but I am just with Joe. Your measurements don´t say anything about your fine motor skills. Otherwise you´d say, that it might be just impossible for me to make sth like a watchstrap, or maybe just one with 4 SPI and sry, but that´s just bullshit.

@TO:

Yes, the thread might be a little bit too thick, but that´s not the main point here. Just have a look on your front side. Stitching with those pricking irons/chisels to create the slanted look follows some pretty basic rules. The main thing for the slanted look is, that you got your holes, pointing in one direction (like this / / / / / / /) and your thread pointing in the other direction (like this \ \ \ \ \ \ \) so it creates a connection between the top of the first hole and the bottom of the second one ( /\/ ) on your front side you stitched in the wrong direction, so the thread connects the bottom of the first with the top of the second one ( /// ). So if you pull it it will slide up in the left hole and slide down on the right one, creating a nearly straight line, So just have a look whether you have to push the second needle over or under the first one! In addition to that there is the common "overhand-knot" you may create to create it on both sides. Just look up nigel armitage on youtube (Saddlestitch in detail) to see how that works. But remember that he is a leftie . Hope that´s sort of understandable

I am still unsure why such a lot of people got problems with this.... often even after watching nigel great video..... (No offense to the TO, not at all!)

Thank you for the explanation.! really help, I will try this out

Yeah, I just started making stuff out of leather about month ago.

(actually not made anything yet, still learning about hand stitching, etc)

Edited July 4, 2014 by armndrsyhr

[DavidL]

Thanks! yes I think I made the holes become bigger with this thick thread.

Also, I've just ordered myself this thread on Ebay (LINK). They said it's under 1mm thick.

Do you think this thread will be fit on my iron pricking/chisel holes?

For the details, I use Japanese Seiwa & Kyoshin Elle iron pricking/chisel : 4mm / 6,3 SPI

You have to be careful how they list the sizing on the stitching chisels. Sometimes they measure from the middle of one prong to the other. Other times they measure it differently and it comes out slightly less than 4mm or more.

Id recommend euro tools like dixon or vergez if you can afford them.

Yup give up....you have no chance.

Give up what? I'm not trying to have an argument with you, but your hell bent on starting one from the get go. Im only trying to give information that might give the other person some ideas or some knowledge.

Fine motor skills aren't related to hand size, the size of the hands are at your advantage if they are smaller since the needles, thread and awl are tiny in size. If I gave my friend who has 8 inch long hands the same awl I have, the small needles and thread, he will have issue using it.

[armndrsyhr]

Hello I would love to see any feedback and opinion.

Here is progress I made after read all the feedback from you guys (also I watched Nigel's video) :

I still use the same thread (this is only what I got this time)

Result : Now with slanted effect on both side (following Nigel's tutorial)

Am I in right direction or not? Thanks!

[Camerius]

Looks good to me, and how the stitches leans towards me when I do saddle stitching. Good job!

[Sona]

@armndrsyhr:
Looks much better than before. And as you can see, it´s not a thing of the thread size, even if a thinner one would fit the SPI better. Nice job for a first (/second) attempt!
Just one thing to add. If I see that correctly, the stitched is slanted in the wrong direction on the back side. Even though most wouldn´t recognize that... but it still looks good.
Did you use some sort of the overhand knot? It looks like you didn´t, but I think you might get problems by making one with that thread in those holes.... At least you still wanna give it a try

@David:

1. I don´t see Joe creating/enjoying any drama, neither on this topic nor on others

2. He doesn´t create problems. Like me he is just trying to negate this "opinion" of yours. Exspecially, because you seem to think that it is a fact.

3. The reason for point two is, that he wants to help the TO.

4. Could you give some examples?

5. Just tell me where he "uses" anybody? Sure, there are folks who start to use irony, maybe sarcasm. But he "uses" nobody or do you think, he used me, too?

6. You neither need to pull until your fingers start to bleed when doing heavier work nor do you need some kind of bullstrenth... and if it hurts (which should be more a problem of thinner thread - if anything at all) than there is this quite long known possibility to use some tape or some leather rings for your fingers.... And I get tired of repeating myself again and again... but no..... it is NOT harder for people with bigger hands to do finer work. NOT....n..o...t.... right? And yes, I know (!) that as I have those kind of hands......


Besides that:

+1 for Macca!

Edited July 4, 2014 by Sona

[stelmackr]

Interesting read.

[Hi Im Joe]

Interesting read.

LOL. I feel bad hijacking the OP's thread but I don't want him to read some of David's comments and actually think they are correct and/or true.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Hi Im Joe

[DavidL]

When I say something Im hoping that I get corrected so that it furthers what I'm saying, creating a discussion. However, to try to get me to apologize is ridiculous and childish thing to force someone to apologize. Just like how I want to get my work critiqued I put ideas out there so people can use it for something or gets them thinking and further their work to a further understanding of the craft.

Hello I would love to see any feedback and opinion.

Here is progress I made after read all the feedback from you guys (also I watched Nigel's video) :

I still use the same thread (this is only what I got this time)

Result : Now with slanted effect on both side (following Nigel's tutorial)

Am I in right direction or not? Thanks!

Your in the right direction. Only thing is the thread is too thick so its bulging where the two threads meet. I try to tell people to either go thick thread and 5-7 SPI or 7-9 SPI .58mm. When you go with thinner thread it doesnt fill up the hold and you have to be soft with your touch. Thicker threads normally mean thicker leather and the tension can be raised and should be raised.

Edited July 5, 2014 by DavidL

[armndrsyhr]

Thank you guys! I really appreciate all the feedback

I'm happy with the result

Also, I have issue with marking holes in multiple-layer leather.

How to get same precise hole in front and flesh side?

I guess that is result from bad leather cutting?

Let me know what do you think guys!

Thanks!!

Edited July 5, 2014 by armndrsyhr

[Sona]

There are some different possibilities. If you use some pricking iron (which you just tap to mark the leather) instead of pricking chisels (which you punch through it all the way) the is the way, Nigel shows in this video:

This is a good way for smaller things, as you´d have to punch a lot if you´d like to stitch bigger things like messanger bags and stuff.

Which pricking chisels (like the japanese ones) you could glue them first (most use contact cement) and punch through it. Be sure you hold the iron in a 90° angle to get nice, clean holes, lined up perfectly.

The fastest way using one of these tools is to glue the layers together, mark the holes on the top layer and to push the awl through all layers. But this needs a very sharp and polished awl (maybe with some wax)and some experience as you need a feeling for the angle. The first attemps on this normally don´t line up nicely on the back side, but the better you get the better becomes your stitching

[Hi Im Joe]

I've found its much easier to punch straight holes with an awl if you do it into a cork board holding the article flat on your work bench instead of in the pony.

[armndrsyhr]

Hi, thank guys, I will try all different methods.

Hope this will work!

Edited July 6, 2014 by armndrsyhr

[Sona]

Yeah, I forgot that one, joe just mentioned. I push the awl through while stitching like nigel does.
But when I used to punch the holes like Joe, I used some piece of thick felt underneath. I think it dulls the blade not as fast as kork and it´s easier to pull the awl out again.
Just find your way - that a topic with a lot of different methods and a lot of different opinions like you have mentioned already

[DavidL]

I think its time I gave away my technique that I found works best when stitching 2 or more layers. Hopefully it helps.

Use a normal pricking iron and mark the grain side of one side, and use the same iron and mark the grain side of other layer. The slant on the front will look like /// and the backside is also /// if you flip it over - regular way front is - /// and back \\\. Slide your awl in the slit and on the backside rotate it to follow the slit on the back.

Now when you look at your stitch on the front side and backside they are indistinguishable. A side note if the marks are slightly misaligned it doesnt affect the stitch noticeably.

Also works well for turned edges and invisible edge since you don't have to stitch through multiple layers w/out a guide on the back, just add some contact cement w/ a small applicator once the piece is stitched. This technique will not work for layers that have to be glued together first then hit with the iron like alligator hide glued on veg tanned leather.

Edited July 6, 2014 by DavidL

[Camerius]

My stitching is going \\\\\ instead of ////, not that it matters to me, and if I need to, I can just switch needle priority (right hand needle going in from right, and having left hand needle go on the bottom when they cross instead of on top, before going in through the hole).

What I'm wondering is how many are having the harness stitch ending up as mine, and how many does not. Not that it matters in the end, if the costumer is happy, that the stitches looks good, level and tight. As Nigel says himself "It's not that it may be wrong, it may simply be that someone is stitching differently" (paraphrasing here)....

[mlapaglia]

Just to add my 2 cents. sinew is not a good thing to use to stitch with for most applications. Stick to a waxed linen, or waxed poly thread. I use waxed linen.