D Rings For Breast Collar

[morb]

just wondering what's the best way to add d rings to a saddle? I have tried to attach my breast collar to the rigging d's but it seems too low and when I attach it to the swells it seems too high. Do you just attach them under the concho?

thanks

not sure what happened but I post this question 3 times, how can I delete the other 2?

Edited July 28, 2014 by morb

[Northmount]

Deleted extras

Tom

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Normally I cut a chape from a piece of fairly solid, but not overly heavy leather to butt up against the swells underneath the front jockey. An inch and a quarter dee works well. I cut the leather piece 1-1/4" wide where it goes through the dee, but then wider where it attaches to the bar. It is set lower than the front concho, but higher than your rig dee, and a little higher also than a BC dee set in the skirt would normally be. I use a couple screws and either staples or nails to secure it to the bar. This works well when the existing dees have torn out of the skirts on a factory saddle, but I also install it the same way on my new ones. Some guys incorporate this into their latigo catcher and that does reduce bulk a little in that area. However, I've seen that type sagging away from the front jockey because it wasn't attached well enough for the pull a breast collar can create, and there isn't a lot of room up thee for nails and screws, especially if you drill your string holes. Unless you have a die for the breastcollar dee/ latigo catcher piece, it can also be kind of a son-of-a-gun to cut. I had a die for a regular catcher made quite a few years ago, and didn't want to have another made when I saw this style start to show up on new saddles. It is easier for my old, arthritic hands to cut the chape first mentioned, than the one with the catcher, if that makes any sense at all! I can find a picture somewhere if you aren't following me.

[morb]

thanks. i think i'm following you, i'm going to try it out this weekend. if you have a pic that would be great but i'm sure i understand what your saying. how long do you make the chape?

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

The length of the chape depends on how much skirt is in front of the bar and how much front jockey covers the skirt. I rarely ever use the same pattern twice, especially on the repairs. I'll take an existing pattern and modify it most of the time, because the fit around the swells is different from one style to the next, as is the amount of skirt in front of the bar. I'll measure some of my patterns when I get to the shop and get back to you on the general dimensions. Here are a couple pics. They don't show the shape of the whole chape, but do show the general position of installation.

[morb]

thank you, that helps a lot. it looks good and looks sturdy. i was thinking of using those d's with the metal tab but yours look better.

[bruce johnson]

I like how Big Sioux Saddlery did the folded leather and did a lot of repairs that way too. That makes a nice smooth look and is stout.

I am attaching pics of one of my own saddles. I put a tab on the front for the breast collar dee and another tab coming up off the back for the cross-over rope strap buckle. The right side just has the front breast collar dee tab. I just like how the breast collar hangs on this horse mounted up higher. I used really good latigo and did my bleeds down tight. The strings are through the tree but not the skirts. I put slots in the tree to run them through instead of drilling round holes and that left enough wood to feel good about screws and nails having a solid bite.

I also attached a picture of a tab on a leather concho. This is a saddle I did without strings so there is plenty of wood to screw into. I did a screw above and below the concho screw so they wouldn't be in a horizontal line and chance splitting the grain in the tree. I did more of these on cowboying saddles than arena saddles.

[morb]

that looks pretty neat Bruce I like that too. That is what I love about this site, you get to learn from professionals.

You said you make slots in the tree instead of holes, how do you go about making the slots? Do you make a line of holes then chisel them out?

Thanks

[bruce johnson]

To make slots in the tree I used a rotary cutting bit on a Dremel. I remove the rawhide between the holes to let in the strings so there isn't a lump and then revarnish to help seal them.

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

I took some pictures of a few patterns to give you a general idea of the shape, but I forgot to measure them! But like I said, I make a new pattern or modify an existing one anyway for nearly every set I make. I really dislike the metal clips and dees; many of them are just nickel plated and they will rust. I've seen many dozens of that style tear out of the skirt, which brings me some repair work, so I guess I shouldn't complain about that!

As far as my patterns go, I like the ones that are wide on both ends better. I think the ones where the underside just ends in a strap were some of the first ones I made. I decided widening out the underside would give more stability to the whole thing. For the wider patterns, I cut the end that folds under just a little smaller than the top side, and skive the edges down to reduce bulk. I put a copper rivet with a burr next to the dee to hold it solid. Hope this helps.

[morb]

thanks for all the help. i'm going to give it a go this weekend, i have 2 saddles so i might even try both methods.

[oltoot]

Part of the finished 'look' is in the shape of the breast collar and whether or not it has a ring in the center, but all of that said and generally speaking, the higher the better for dees while maintaining firm contact with the tree. Breast Collars that mimic "OL Time" Martingales in shape are the best but not the only IMHO. Now for a parting shot; If the hold back from Collar to main cinch is not adjusted to be snug, it wont matter much how it's shaped or where it attaches. The saddle and collar will move until they successfully find a point of balance and that may very well not be where it ought to be, if you start out with one of your three points in this three point system is significantly looser than the rest.

[morb]

my breast collar has the ring in center, i'm not sure what kind of collar it is i copied my friends here is a pic of it http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=54753&hl=morb#entry350882

when i attach it to the rigging d's it comes around in front of her shoulders and when i attach it to the swells it seems too high and the ring sits higher than the center of her chest. i don't know if any of this makes sense i'll take some pics of it on her

[Big Sioux Saddlery]

Attaching to the swells takes a special design of breast collar. The curve has to be opposite of what a BC normally has. Yours has the start of that type of curve, but probably not enough which is why it won't work up on the swells. I think it would work fine with the dee where Bruce or I put them. I do tell people that when I put the dees up higher, it might require a different style of BC, or there are a couple easy fixes. First, you can use two tugs on each side like a steer tripper collar, to position your BC wherever you want it. Or, you can forego putting the dees in, use your rigging dees, and just use a wither strap. Now with the cut of your BC, it is meant to attach quite a bit higher, and I can see where it won't work attached to your rig dees.

[morb]

i never really knew much about breast collars now that i have one i really don't know that much lol

thanks for the info, i really appreciate it