Making Natural Dyes?

[anhurset]

If you haven't trashed the batch yet then I'd keep going, everything from the walnut family will give you some type of color. The color may not be as strong or deep as what you'd get from black walnuts, but you'll get something from it.

[Oldtoolsniper]

I agree. If you haven't trashed it give it a try. I honestly don't know what the trees in my back yard are but they work. I'm betting that the ones you have will work, if your gloves and or hands turn brown when you are handling the husks you should be good to go.

[DavidL]

Has anyone tried oak bark like the way baker leather tans their leather? From what I read so far on the few sources on barker leather is that after removing the hair still in rawhide shape the leather is put into a lightly concentrated bark solution, then progresses a few times onto progressively stronger bark solution mixed with other natural material.

My questions for people that have the knowledge:

How long does the mixture last in a container?

How many uses is it good for?

Can you buy the same rawhide as the tanneries and get it shipped to you?

Does the leather swell up a few ounces after being in the solution for 3 months - year?

Edited September 26, 2014 by DavidL

[Oldtoolsniper]

Tanning leather is not the same as dyeing leather. To completely different processes. Dying changes the leather color and tanning preserves the hide or leather.

[anhurset]

For the most part that is true, however, bark tanning via the pit method (used during the chalcolithic, bronze age and iron age) usually does radically darken the color.

[zaynexpetty]

If you haven't trashed the batch yet then I'd keep going, everything from the walnut family will give you some type of color. The color may not be as strong or deep as what you'd get from black walnuts, but you'll get something from it.

I decided to toss the batch and start a new one. I ordered about 5 dozen black walnuts (in hull, of course) online, and decided to give those a shot. They are 1 week into fermentation. The only reason I decided to discard the previous batch is because I want to have a more consistent color with subsequent batches, as I plan on using the dye for items I will be selling.

I do have another question about storage concerning both vinegaroon, and the black walnut dye. I would like to store them in 1 gallon, glass wide mouth jars, preferably with plastic lids, as you (at least I think it was you) mentioned that vinegaroon can be harsh on metal. You did also mention the inevitability of mold growth. If I decided not to go with using isopropyl, would using an airtight lid help inhibit mold growth? Would using an airtight lid cause any problems like, say, causing the container to explode/crack, with either vinegaroon or walnut dye? I wouldn't want to have to cook out the alcohol if I used it in my dyes, is that step even necessary in your experience?

If I did use isopropyl, does the percentage matter? I have some 91% isopropyl that I would use if that was the decision.

Thanks again!

[anhurset]

Yes, keep metal, especially steel away from vinegaroon. If I'm doing smaller batches of vinegaroon I usually just keep it in the 1 gallon jug that the vinegar came in, it's plastic and has a lid and handlehandle and is easy to pour from.

I've had more issues with contraction than expansion, and those have been mainly with vinegaroon. The more air in my dye vats the more susceptible they are to temperature fluctuations and creating a vacuum which makes lid removal difficult.

I use 91%, it's what I can get in large bottles cheap. I haven't found it necessary to cook the alcohol out, the amount needed to stave off mold is a fraction of the amount of denatured alcohol found in spirit dyes, if it's not necessary to cook it out of there, then I don't see the need to do so with natural dyes. I've dyed hundreds of items in walnut dye with the alcohol left in and I've yet to see any issues.

[zaynexpetty]

Yes, keep metal, especially steel away from vinegaroon. If I'm doing smaller batches of vinegaroon I usually just keep it in the 1 gallon jug that the vinegar came in, it's plastic and has a lid and handlehandle and is easy to pour from.

I've had more issues with contraction than expansion, and those have been mainly with vinegaroon. The more air in my dye vats the more susceptible they are to temperature fluctuations and creating a vacuum which makes lid removal difficult.

I use 91%, it's what I can get in large bottles cheap. I haven't found it necessary to cook the alcohol out, the amount needed to stave off mold is a fraction of the amount of denatured alcohol found in spirit dyes, if it's not necessary to cook it out of there, then I don't see the need to do so with natural dyes. I've dyed hundreds of items in walnut dye with the alcohol left in and I've yet to see any issues.

Okay, will do. Although, originally I wanted to stay away from using alcohol, I can not find anything else that seems like it might do the same job, that is less hazardous. You know, honestly, I don't really even know what is bad about using isopropyl. Is it the fact that they "poison" the alcohol so that people won't drink it?

Im assuming vinegar black doesn't need a mold retardant? Or does it?

[anhurset]

There's a chance that you can be poisoned by the fumes. That being said, it requires prolonged inhalation of a massive amount of alcohol for this to occur, WAY more than you will need for 20 gallons worth of dye.

The acid in the vinegaroon inhibits fungal growth, so no mold retardant is needed.

[zaynexpetty]

There's a chance that you can be poisoned by the fumes. That being said, it requires prolonged inhalation of a massive amount of alcohol for this to occur, WAY more than you will need for 20 gallons worth of dye.

The acid in the vinegaroon inhibits fungal growth, so no mold retardant is needed.

That makes sense. Thanks!

Also, I just posted a new thread about natural alternatives to rubber cement, considering you know so much about natural dyes, I was wondering if you might know anything on the subject? You can check the topic from my page if you feel so inclined. I haven't received any responses yet.

[zaynexpetty]

For years I have used whole walnuts to boil and dye traps. It turns them black after they are rusted. The concentrated stuff is called logwood trap dye. It's used as a form of rust presevative and has been used for more than a hundred years as far as my reading has revealed to me. I have also used the leaves from maple trees for brown on traps, I discovered this by accident, leaves in a bucket of water turned the water a golden brown.

If you hold the dye over it molds. I've had some for years in a stainless steel crab pot. I just let the water evaporate and add water when I use it again in the fall. It stains everything it touches to include the grass. It will not completely come back out of jeans either.

I just use whole walnuts. I never tried breaking them up. They do have worms in them here in Iowa if you pick them up on the ground.

Be prepared to for the squirrels, they will find the walnuts unles they are in a container they cannot get into or you submerge them as soon as you gather them. They will shell them for you but they tend to strew the husks all over the yard so it's not really beneficial.

I didn't see this post until just now, for some reason. I will definitely have to experiment with some maple leaves, sweet find.

[zaynexpetty]

There's a chance that you can be poisoned by the fumes. That being said, it requires prolonged inhalation of a massive amount of alcohol for this to occur, WAY more than you will need for 20 gallons worth of dye.

The acid in the vinegaroon inhibits fungal growth, so no mold retardant is needed.

So, I finished the dye, and it is pretty weak (or so it seems). I was hoping for darker brown, but what I got is more of a tan color. I boiled the walnuts for about 4 hours, thinking it was done, I let it cool, tested it on some scrap leather, and it was pretty light (except on one piece), almost what you'd get from coffee staining. So, the next day, I boiled again for 2 hours, then strained and decanted. It is still pretty light.

After looking at the scraps I tested after the final boil, one method of applying the dye did result in a darker brown, but it was splotchy.

I'll attach a picture of the three test pieces.

From top to bottom:

-Dip dyed (only let soak for about 10-15 seconds). You can see the undyed natural leather on the left of this piece for reference.

-Brush dyed with a wool dauber, after wetting the surface of the leather first w/ sponge (learned this when dying with fiebings oil dyes in the past, creates a more even dye).

-Brush dyed without wetting the leather first (good color, but not even). Maybe if I applied another coat it would look more even? I don't know.

[anhurset]

Have you oiled any of them yet? The color tends to darken dramatically after oiling. Instead of wetting before brush dying try pre oiling. I've found that my walnut dyes don't like being applies to damp leather, but it does like pre oiling.

When I submerge I usually leave the leather in for about 30 minutes (this varies depending on the leather/dye reaction) and never less than 15. When I brush dye I do a minimum of three coats before oiling and, depending on the shade I'm going and how it looks after oiling, I may dye and oil a few more times.

Also, make sure you let the leather dry before oiling, it doesn't hurt anything, but you don't get the same color reaction when it's still damp.

Dealing with thus stuff is not like working with spirit/oil dyes, it often takes me days to get the color I'm looking for, especially if I'm trying to match color between multiple pieces.

Thankfully vinegaroon is much easier, drop the piece in for 5 minutes, baking soda wash for a few seconds, rinse, dry and oil, oil, oil.

[zaynexpetty]

Have you oiled any of them yet? The color tends to darken dramatically after oiling. Instead of wetting before brush dying try pre oiling. I've found that my walnut dyes don't like being applies to damp leather, but it does like pre oiling.

When I submerge I usually leave the leather in for about 30 minutes (this varies depending on the leather/dye reaction) and never less than 15. When I brush dye I do a minimum of three coats before oiling and, depending on the shade I'm going and how it looks after oiling, I may dye and oil a few more times.

Also, make sure you let the leather dry before oiling, it doesn't hurt anything, but you don't get the same color reaction when it's still damp.

Dealing with thus stuff is not like working with spirit/oil dyes, it often takes me days to get the color I'm looking for, especially if I'm trying to match color between multiple pieces.

Thankfully vinegaroon is much easier, drop the piece in for 5 minutes, baking soda wash for a few seconds, rinse, dry and oil, oil, oil.

I have not, I was going to try that after. I never thought about oiling them before hand, but that does make a lot of sense. I will give that a shot. Is there a type of oil you recommend (I may have asked you before, but this feed is ridiculously long, haha)? I have some montana pitch blend, but I was planning on using that for my last step after dying (also heard, or read, or maybe you told me, that this oil is good for helping to mask the vinegar smell from vinegaroon) . Im assuming some Extra Virgin Olive Oil would do the job?

I am ridiculously impressed with the vinegaroon. It is incredible to me how it changes the color to black pretty much instantly, and how you can get an almost grey color from just doing a quick brush.

I know i've thanked you before, but seriously; I am so grateful that you have bestowed your knowledge on to me (even if you say that you found your information through this same medium) and It isn't easy to sift through the volumes of information just on this website alone, even that can be a daunting task within itself. I haven't found anyone else that has been this helpful, and I can whole-heartedly say that I would not have a gallon of Black Walnut dye, and a gallon of Vinegaroon if it wasn't for your help and in-depth descriptions, and timely responses to the ridiculous amount of questions that I have. So, THANK YOU, again.

[anhurset]

I'm always happy to share whatever information I can.

I use extra virgin olive oil, whatever brand is cheapest. I've found that I get the best colors by applying oil until it starts to come through the back, don't just drench it in oil though, there's a fine line here between just enough and too much. I apply the oil in layers with a few hours between for absorption, once I start seeing the oil come through the back I stop and let it set over night to allow the oil to migrate through the leather. If you don't give the oil time to move through the leather you WILL over oil.

Like I said above, if I oil a couple of times and the color's not where I want it I'll apply another coat or two of dye, allow it to dry and oil again. This whole thing can get finicky at times, but it usually makes for a beautiful finish.

[highnoonhunter]

Two more natural dyes I have used are Goldenseal (locally known as yellow root) and Red Puccoon root (locally known as blood root).

Noted: I have yet to use these on leather, but I have used them on cloth, feathers, and wood.

I simply bring the roots to a gentle boil for about 10 minutes, and then let them set until cool. I store them in a mason jar. The Goldenseal makes for a rich to bright yellow, and the Red Puccoon can be blood red to orange (depending on the color of the item you are dying). And you can mix them to get colors in between.

The coverage is good if you don't over water. I usually just cover the roots with water.

I experimented with soaking them in rubbing alchohol once, and it worked, but the colors weren't as dark.

Also, the will mold in the jar over time. My main use was in dying wood arrows. So I wasn't as concerned with the mold as I would be with using it for leather products. So I simply scraped the mold off the top, and used it. I dipped the arrows in a PVC tube.

[zaynexpetty]

Two more natural dyes I have used are Goldenseal (locally known as yellow root) and Red Puccoon root (locally known as blood root).

Noted: I have yet to use these on leather, but I have used them on cloth, feathers, and wood.

I simply bring the roots to a gentle boil for about 10 minutes, and then let them set until cool. I store them in a mason jar. The Goldenseal makes for a rich to bright yellow, and the Red Puccoon can be blood red to orange (depending on the color of the item you are dying). And you can mix them to get colors in between.

The coverage is good if you don't over water. I usually just cover the roots with water.

I experimented with soaking them in rubbing alchohol once, and it worked, but the colors weren't as dark.

Also, the will mold in the jar over time. My main use was in dying wood arrows. So I wasn't as concerned with the mold as I would be with using it for leather products. So I simply scraped the mold off the top, and used it. I dipped the arrows in a PVC tube.

I am very interested in trying out the Red Puccoon root dye. Only problem is; I don't think I'll be able to find any locally. Thank you for the suggestions!

[simontuntelder]

I have zero experience with natural dyes - to be honest I never dye any leathers besides the occassional edge dye.

But I do love indigo and I was wondering if any of you guys have any experience with dyeing natural veg tan with indigo (preferably natural?

[zaynexpetty]

I have zero experience with natural dyes - to be honest I never dye any leathers besides the occassional edge dye.

But I do love indigo and I was wondering if any of you guys have any experience with dyeing natural veg tan with indigo (preferably natural?

I am also interested in this.

[Drgrandma]

Oh too bad you tossed the walnuts! English and black walnuts are the SAME!! I was going from a book about natural dyeing, Wild Color by Jenny Dean. No need to shuck, just let them ferment in a bucket outside. But now I know why their were pieces of husk in the yard. Darned squirrels.  At the end of fermentation, I strain the pieces out, and compost the whole mess of solids. I know I'm wasting potential dye, but they drop nuts every year!  Ps toss in some paper and it will dye that too! This year I added 1/2 cup iron liquor (old nails and vinegar) to 3.5 gallon of walnut dye. Gave some wool a gorgeous deep brown. Hooray. Will concentrate the dye down by boiling before trying on leather. Wish me luck!

[zaynexpetty]

On 10/14/2016 at 11:32 PM, Drgrandma said:

Oh too bad you tossed the walnuts! English and black walnuts are the SAME!! I was going from a book about natural dyeing, Wild Color by Jenny Dean. No need to shuck, just let them ferment in a bucket outside. But now I know why their were pieces of husk in the yard. Darned squirrels.  At the end of fermentation, I strain the pieces out, and compost the whole mess of solids. I know I'm wasting potential dye, but they drop nuts every year!  Ps toss in some paper and it will dye that too! This year I added 1/2 cup iron liquor (old nails and vinegar) to 3.5 gallon of walnut dye. Gave some wool a gorgeous deep brown. Hooray. Will concentrate the dye down by boiling before trying on leather. Wish me luck!

I will have to try english walnuts next. I still have my batch from about a year ago that I made with black walnuts, and it gives an interesting color (see attached picture). Since, I have added some 91% alcohol to my batch to help stave off mold, which has diluted it quite a bit. It takes twice the amount of coats now and doesn't have quite the same brushed effect.

[Harry Marinakis]

I've been playing around with natural leather dyes myself. Below is a table of some of the natural dyes that  I've created so far, using Madder root, Brazilwood, Red Sandalwood, Old Fustic, vinagroon, and a variety of other natural reagents and mordants.

I haven't even started exploring blues, yellows or browns yet.

Almost all natural leather dyes require soaking for prolonged periods (e.g., days) in order to get good, saturated colors. There are exceptions (like Brazilwood and vinagroon).

Unfortunately, most of the natural dyes that work with leather are fugitive (i.e., they are not color fast, sun fast or wash fast), so they have to be sealed and cannot be exposed to the elements. The rare exceptions include vinagroon, walnut dyes, and some lichen dyes.

Also, most of the protocols for dyeing fibers do not translate well to leather, as many fiber dye baths require temps hotter than 180 degrees F (and that would obviously harden the leather).

Edited June 27, 2017 by Harry Marinakis

[LeatherBeast]

Wow, thanks for the great information here! I would love to experiment with making my own natural dyes.

[leopardskinfynn]

On 27/06/2017 at 3:33 PM, Harry Marinakis said:

I've been playing around with natural leather dyes myself. Below is a table of some of the natural dyes that  I've created so far, using Madder root, Brazilwood, Red Sandalwood, Old Fustic, vinagroon, and a variety of other natural reagents and mordants.

I haven't even started exploring blues, yellows or browns yet.

Almost all natural leather dyes require soaking for prolonged periods (e.g., days) in order to get good, saturated colors. There are exceptions (like Brazilwood and vinagroon).

Unfortunately, most of the natural dyes that work with leather are fugitive (i.e., they are not color fast, sun fast or wash fast), so they have to be sealed and cannot be exposed to the elements. The rare exceptions include vinagroon, walnut dyes, and some lichen dyes.

Also, most of the protocols for dyeing fibers do not translate well to leather, as many fiber dye baths require temps hotter than 180 degrees F (and that would obviously harden the leather).

Hi, 

I'm a newbie here. I'm looking to naturally dye rawhide red/crimson/scarlet before turning into a frame drum. I would really appreciate any help you could give me - your red colours are gorgeous. 

Many thanks! 

[fredk]

Anyone tried saffron for orange-to-red?