Small Leather Craft Buisness In Need (Kickstarter).

[leatherboundgoodsco]

Hi. My name is Samuel and i am a Leather smith going on 20 years. i have been working leather as an apprentice since the age of 8 and as i grew so did my love for leather work. i have started my own leather crafting buisness and need help. i figured i would run a kickstater and try and get crowd funded. i have made a kickstyarter and took it live yesterday the 8th of august. i figured i woudl turn to the leather community to help spread the word... please copy and paste this link into your facebook, just that little shout out could be the diffrence between not getting funded and making it. if you have some time and wanna check it out please do there is a small 2 minute video of me making a wallet. thnak you for all the help and comemts that will come

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/529482776/slims-wallets-light-sleek-and-functional

thats the ling.

-Sam

<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/529482776/slims-wallets-light-sleek-and-functional/widget/video.html" frameborder="0" scrolling="no"> </iframe>

<iframe frameborder="0" height="420" scrolling="no" src="https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/529482776/slims-wallets-light-sleek-and-functional/widget/card.html?v=2" width="220"></iframe>

[DavidL]

Heres real honest advice.

The goal is really high for your pricing. To reach your goal would take roughly 400-650 wallets made ranging from the $15- 35. Almost unattainable, unless your product is top shelf, and at 15- 25 dollars people will think it isn't well made compared to one at 45-50 dollars (just because the true price of the wallet is 5 dollars to sell at 10 dollars profit is not as profitable as making a wallet thats true cost is 12 dollars and selling it at 42). If you did a poll most people are willing to spend 35-59 dollars on a wallet if its made in the USA, well crafted, comes with 5 year warranty AND Horweens leather. Do not undersell your product and learn the needs, wants and demographic of your consumer.

At that goal your product should be on par with other established goods on the market, EX. etsy goods and made in China wallets. Your product should be extremely well crafted and be selling for 40-45 for 8k goal.

As an estimate your break even point is $1500 or 2000. So you could redo your pledge if it doesnt reach the goal and reset it at 2k-3k goal. You also don't offer any other products like keychains or even different colours, lowering your odds. Once you get that goal, invest in a few dies or something to aid manufacturing process and continue to make a product and sell it until you get enough for a laser cutter.

[Sona]

Hi Samuel,

First of all welcome to the Forum as this is your first post. Sadly I gotta tell you that you are not the first on this platform who asks the comunity for a little help with your kickstarter project and you will not be the last one. But as you can see in the other threads, there are a lot of answers explaining why you will hardly find somebody around here to copy that link on their FB-pages or somewhere else.
I am not that kind of an "oldi" around here, but I came here to get help on difficult problems, tips for the craft itself and maybe some inspiration, too. And you will get that here, exspecially if you try to help and support other members. But asking for advertising your buisness on their social media sites or somewhere else would mean to lead their followers and customers to you, which you might understand is a point, nobody would do that easy.
Same thing is that you opened your first thread with this topic which leaves a little odd impression at someone who really doesn´t know you at all. So I think you will not find as much help for your project as you might hope.

Besides sth completely different:

I know that theese words might seem to be very harsh, but I just wanna give you a little honest feedback on what I recognized while having a quick look at your site on KS. Please don´t take this personal, but as I don´t know whether you wanna make a living of your leatherwork or if it should be just a supported hobby, I think it is neccessary to tell you what I think about your work as far as I can "judge" it.

So about your Wallet:

Your points for your product are that it is very slim, durable and (hand-)made of a nice sturdy material on a high quality level.

As I see it, it isn´t slim at all... To be honest, for a simple card holder it is quite thick. If you have a look around here, on etsy, deviantart, in a store for leather wallets on anywhere else, you´ll see that the "fat bulky" wallets are so bulky because of the load of things you can stuff in there and therefore there are a lot of slots, folds and stuff. But the material itseld is really thin nothing like 3-4 oz (maybe the big front piece, exspecially if you wanna add some carving, but that´s it). So I´d have a look whether you either got a supplier for thinner leather, or maybe invest in a splitter.

Second point is the material.
The pictures I can see there show a fuzzy fleshside and the grainside seems to be okay, but not the "promised" highest quality you mentioned in your text. The top is quite bumpy, but that´s a point a normal customer wouldn´t recognize like someone who works with leather himself. So for that: I´d either look for better leather if you are interested in getting it, or work on the flesh side. Apply some Tan-Kote on it, sand it until it´s nice and even,.....[lots of blabla following here ^^)
In addition I don´t recognize any finish on it and it looks really mat, so if that´s the case, I would at least treat it with some leatherbalm or similar.

The stitching looks good by the technical site, but I would stitch at a higher SPI for that little project (and a thinner thread) and if the cards fit in that pocket, I would cut the edge much more near the stitching line, too. Like this you have a lot of unneeded leather just lying around there and the outer edge might open up one day, as it isn´t hold together by thread, just glued (?). This way you´d connect the stitching and the edge in a much nicer way!

And believe me, you want to work on the edge much more. It is rough, looking like just beveled with an edgebeveler buch nothing more. Bevel it, slick it, polish it... all that stuff, maybe you wanna add some edge finish. If you´d use the search engine here, you´ll find loads of threads and information about that topic!

So all in all I think it is a nice homemade accessoir, but nothing I would show around and open a store with. I am very sorry, but to me it doesn´t look like 20 years of experience, more like learning leatherwork for a few months maybe. To me that´s all just fine, but my expectations of products also depends on the "market" it is made for. So if I make sth for myself, it´s sth different that making presents for friends, which is - again - different to opening a shop and selling stuff to people I don´t know at all.
All that leads me to the last point for the tool- and thechnique-stuff.: The laser engraver you´d like to purchase with the money through the KS-project:
A laser-engraver is a great machine I´d like to own myself a lot! But it isn´t always the next machine which will take you to the next level of craftmenship, it is your knowledge about your tools, your machines, the possibilities you have with the equip you´ve got and the ways of working with leather and how leather works (with you ^^). I think it might be wiser to learn how to use your equipment you already have than to purchase a big machine you might not be able to take the full advantage of. (Even though, the engraver still is a nice machine and I don´t want to tell you not to buy it if you get enough money )

So for the KS-Site itself:
All in all it is okay, but if I´d only read the text I would suggest that you make some bags or similar (phrases like "numerous hours in the development of this product" leads to sth... not to such a cardholder). And... I know I am a european, so it might be difficult for me to understand it for real, but I don´t know why you got to write that you served as a soldier. I know that in america, serving people earn a lot of respect, I read phrases like "and btw. thanks for serving!" from and to people who just write a comment under a Youtubevideo all the time in the internet, so there IS a huge difference in that point from America to at least Germany. But I really can´t say if I would mention that in that kind of advert..... maybe some of our americans could do that ^^.

So even if you didn´t ask for it, I just feeled that I want to give you a honest critique. Hope you don´t take it personal and I whish you the very best for your KS...

Sona

Edited August 9, 2014 by Sona

[TXAG]

Sadly I gotta tell you that you are not the first in thi platform who asks the comunity for a little help with your kickstarter project and you will not be the last one. But as you can see in the other threads, there are a lot of answers explaining why you will hardly find somebody around here to copy that link on their FB-pages or somewhere else.

+1

Edited August 9, 2014 by TXAG

[JLSleather]

A few simple points that may help... a guy looking for a business loan (that is a loan, right - not a "gimme") might --

hit the spell check. nothing spells 'unprofessional' like misspelled words. nobody wants a $500 leather item with their name misspelled;

maybe don't mention the 20 years 'experience'. Investor folks (the ones with money) might wonder why after 20 years there's not enough profit to fund YOURSELF;

consider instead an Etsy shop. I saw this morning someone selling HUNDREDS of "luggage tags". Little cheap crap .. total investment 37¢ and 2 minutes.. and they are selling 'em all directions at $40 apiece. Get a slut in a bikini top to "model" 'em for you. Oh, keep in mind that CHEAP sluts keep costs down

Like I said -- just thinkin' out loud here ...

[Troy Burch]

Get a slut in a bikini top to "model" 'em for you. Oh, keep in mind that CHEAP sluts keep costs down

Like I said -- just thinkin' out loud here ...

Cheap sluts for $15 billfolds is ok but with $50 billfolds sluts should also be upgraded.

[camano ridge]

I agree with most of the above. It is difficult for us to give you are support when we don't knpow you or your intentions. I agree the amouint you are asking for to produce your one product is a considerable amount. You don't clearly state what your you intend to do with the money you are asking for. It certainly does not require $8,000.00 of tools and materials to produce your one product. After 20 years you would think that you already had most of the tools you would need espescilly since the product you are making only needs something to cut out the pattern and something to stitch with. Even if you decided to mechanize and get a clicker and a sewing machine you would need far less then $8,000.00.

[Macca]

Sona said it all

& a lot gentler than I would have

20 years ?

oh & I see this is your third attempt on kickstarter. I don't think lack of publicity is the reason you are not getting backing.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Macca

[leatherboundgoodsco]

Heres real honest advice.

The goal is really high for your pricing. To reach your goal would take roughly 400-650 wallets made ranging from the $15- 35. Almost unattainable, unless your product is top shelf, and at 15- 25 dollars people will think it isn't well made compared to one at 45-50 dollars (just because the true price of the wallet is 5 dollars to sell at 10 dollars profit is not as profitable as making a wallet thats true cost is 12 dollars and selling it at 42). If you did a poll most people are willing to spend 35-59 dollars on a wallet if its made in the USA, well crafted, comes with 5 year warranty AND Horweens leather. Do not undersell your product and learn the needs, wants and demographic of your consumer.

At that goal your product should be on par with other established goods on the market, EX. etsy goods and made in China wallets. Your product should be extremely well crafted and be selling for 40-45 for 8k goal.

As an estimate your break even point is $1500 or 2000. So you could redo your pledge if it doesnt reach the goal and reset it at 2k-3k goal. You also don't offer any other products like keychains or even different colours, lowering your odds. Once you get that goal, invest in a few dies or something to aid manufacturing process and continue to make a product and sell it until you get enough for a laser cutter.

yes i know the goal is set high and the rewards are pretty constricted. its more of a market research than anything. i would like to get a Zing16 laser cutter and engraver that is why the goal is set so high.. the laser cost 8k plus tax. i only have a few grand available for this project so that goes to materials and worker cost. thank you for your super helpful advice and wonderful points on how to improve for my next try. thank you for your time and your lengthy reply.

Very respectfully,

Samuel E Baker

[leatherboundgoodsco]

I agree with most of the above. It is difficult for us to give you are support when we don't knpow you or your intentions. I agree the amouint you are asking for to produce your one product is a considerable amount. You don't clearly state what your you intend to do with the money you are asking for. It certainly does not require $8,000.00 of tools and materials to produce your one product. After 20 years you would think that you already had most of the tools you would need espescilly since the product you are making only needs something to cut out the pattern and something to stitch with. Even if you decided to mechanize and get a clicker and a sewing machine you would need far less then $8,000.00.

i am trying to get an epilog zing16 laser. i have many many tools, i have a clicker i have a cobra sewing machine, i would like to get the laser. my intentions are to make a product that would be able to be cut and engraved with this laser, and to get the laser. i am sorry if i offended you or any other person in this community. that was not my intention.

thank you for your time and your reply.

very respectfully,

Samuel E Baker

[leatherboundgoodsco]

Sona said it all

& a lot gentler than I would have

20 years ?

oh & I see this is your third attempt on kickstarter. I don't think lack of publicity is the reason you are not getting backing.

my third attempt yes, i have tried diffrent things and have not succeeded yet. i will continue to try and maybe one day i will succeed. i make quality items, most people buy my journals or maps, a wallet was less intimidating in refence to designing. thank you for your reply.

Very Respecfully,

Samuel E Baker

www.leatherboundgoods.com

check out my website for more info on me if you wish. have a wonderful day

+1

yeah, i see that, i was raised in a leather worker community in tennessee we all helped one another, i just figured id give it a shot, thank you for your words. best of luck.

[leatherboundgoodsco]

Hi Samuel,

First of all welcome to the Forum as this is your first post. Sadly I gotta tell you that you are not the first on this platform who asks the comunity for a little help with your kickstarter project and you will not be the last one. But as you can see in the other threads, there are a lot of answers explaining why you will hardly find somebody around here to copy that link on their FB-pages or somewhere else.

I am not that kind of an "oldi" around here, but I came here to get help on difficult problems, tips for the craft itself and maybe some inspiration, too. And you will get that here, exspecially if you try to help and support other members. But asking for advertising your buisness on their social media sites or somewhere else would mean to lead their followers and customers to you, which you might understand is a point, nobody would do that easy.

Same thing is that you opened your first thread with this topic which leaves a little odd impression at someone who really doesn´t know you at all. So I think you will not find as much help for your project as you might hope.

Besides sth completely different:

I know that theese words might seem to be very harsh, but I just wanna give you a little honest feedback on what I recognized while having a quick look at your site on KS. Please don´t take this personal, but as I don´t know whether you wanna make a living of your leatherwork or if it should be just a supported hobby, I think it is neccessary to tell you what I think about your work as far as I can "judge" it.

So about your Wallet:

Your points for your product are that it is very slim, durable and (hand-)made of a nice sturdy material on a high quality level.

As I see it, it isn´t slim at all... To be honest, for a simple card holder it is quite thick. If you have a look around here, on etsy, deviantart, in a store for leather wallets on anywhere else, you´ll see that the "fat bulky" wallets are so bulky because of the load of things you can stuff in there and therefore there are a lot of slots, folds and stuff. But the material itseld is really thin nothing like 3-4 oz (maybe the big front piece, exspecially if you wanna add some carving, but that´s it). So I´d have a look whether you either got a supplier for thinner leather, or maybe invest in a splitter.

Second point is the material.

The pictures I can see there show a fuzzy fleshside and the grainside seems to be okay, but not the "promised" highest quality you mentioned in your text. The top is quite bumpy, but that´s a point a normal customer wouldn´t recognize like someone who works with leather himself. So for that: I´d either look for better leather if you are interested in getting it, or work on the flesh side. Apply some Tan-Kote on it, sand it until it´s nice and even,.....[lots of blabla following here ^^)

In addition I don´t recognize any finish on it and it looks really mat, so if that´s the case, I would at least treat it with some leatherbalm or similar.

The stitching looks good by the technical site, but I would stitch at a higher SPI for that little project (and a thinner thread) and if the cards fit in that pocket, I would cut the edge much more near the stitching line, too. Like this you have a lot of unneeded leather just lying around there and the outer edge might open up one day, as it isn´t hold together by thread, just glued (?). This way you´d connect the stitching and the edge in a much nicer way!

And believe me, you want to work on the edge much more. It is rough, looking like just beveled with an edgebeveler buch nothing more. Bevel it, slick it, polish it... all that stuff, maybe you wanna add some edge finish. If you´d use the search engine here, you´ll find loads of threads and information about that topic!

So all in all I think it is a nice homemade accessoir, but nothing I would show around and open a store with. I am very sorry, but to me it doesn´t look like 20 years of experience, more like learning leatherwork for a few months maybe. To me that´s all just fine, but my expectations of products also depends on the "market" it is made for. So if I make sth for myself, it´s sth different that making presents for friends, which is - again - different to opening a shop and selling stuff to people I don´t know at all.

All that leads me to the last point for the tool- and thechnique-stuff.: The laser engraver you´d like to purchase with the money through the KS-project:

A laser-engraver is a great machine I´d like to own myself a lot! But it isn´t always the next machine which will take you to the next level of craftmenship, it is your knowledge about your tools, your machines, the possibilities you have with the equip you´ve got and the ways of working with leather and how leather works (with you ^^). I think it might be wiser to learn how to use your equipment you already have than to purchase a big machine you might not be able to take the full advantage of. (Even though, the engraver still is a nice machine and I don´t want to tell you not to buy it if you get enough money )

So for the KS-Site itself:

All in all it is okay, but if I´d only read the text I would suggest that you make some bags or similar (phrases like "numerous hours in the development of this product" leads to sth... not to such a cardholder). And... I know I am a european, so it might be difficult for me to understand it for real, but I don´t know why you got to write that you served as a soldier. I know that in america, serving people earn a lot of respect, I read phrases like "and btw. thanks for serving!" from and to people who just write a comment under a Youtubevideo all the time in the internet, so there IS a huge difference in that point from America to at least Germany. But I really can´t say if I would mention that in that kind of advert..... maybe some of our americans could do that ^^.

So even if you didn´t ask for it, I just feeled that I want to give you a honest critique. Hope you don´t take it personal and I whish you the very best for your KS...

Sona

ouch lol, but yes you have made many many good and great points. i am sorry to have asked the community to give me a shout out when no one here knows me or my work. the edges do need work. your other points have been noted and i will do better to make more of an effort in the future. ever wish you could unpost a thread lol? i do. it wasnt very well thought out. sorry community.

very respectfully,

Samuel E Baker

p.s. the soldier thing was my wifes idea ... i dont aurgue with the mrs. lol

A few simple points that may help... a guy looking for a business loan (that is a loan, right - not a "gimme") might --

hit the spell check. nothing spells 'unprofessional' like misspelled words. nobody wants a $500 leather item with their name misspelled;

maybe don't mention the 20 years 'experience'. Investor folks (the ones with money) might wonder why after 20 years there's not enough profit to fund YOURSELF;

consider instead an Etsy shop. I saw this morning someone selling HUNDREDS of "luggage tags". Little cheap crap .. total investment 37¢ and 2 minutes.. and they are selling 'em all directions at $40 apiece. Get a slut in a bikini top to "model" 'em for you. Oh, keep in mind that CHEAP sluts keep costs down

Like I said -- just thinkin' out loud here ...

alright, thanks.

-Samuel E Baker

[DavidL]

Theres a difference between what you want and what you will receive. Try to get a 2.5k pledge and hopefully you get 3-4k making it approx. 2-3k net profit after taxes, paypal fees, kickstarter fees. Use that to finance the machine or submit your business plan to try to get a business loan for equipment.

From the start it should have been apparent that the goal was set too high for the pricing. People think kickstarter is easy money but if someone selling something similar on kickstarter you are competing with them. (not saying you, but it should be a properly planned like an actual business proposal to a bank or entrepreneur - think shark tanks or dragons den) Honestly if you did try it 2 times already on kickstarter and they both failed it should be indicative to something thats going wrong, not planning.

You need to put more prep in otherwise however many times you try it will most likely not succeed, you could fail 8 times before you make a single pledge by luck. Some plans after writing them out you will realize they are bound to fail so its like trying to sail a boat across the ocean without the checking if theres enough water, food, if there is abnormal weather, maintenance of the boat, or even the path planned out.

Chances of succeeding on a boat without any prep is 10 percent. If a huge company like Nike for instance makes a sub company and for some odd reason put it on kickstarter they could probably get away without even putting too much planning since they have facilities and the connections and the brand behind them (even if they hardly tried they have proper graphic designers, industrial designers, production managers, production workers, highly skilled videographers. Without planning there success rate is 60-80 percent on a kickstarter pledge. Even a big companies chances decrease (by much less than me or you) if they don't plan, for reasons you encountered. With planning and taking a few months for prototypes and testing materials, getting the shipping distribution and costing their success rate increased by 20ish percent.

If you did all the planning (every thing above) your success rate will be 75-80 percent without it is down to 20-30 percent and sometimes even less than 5 percent or 0 if the plan is totally off, making it more like gambling and hoping it works rather than planning and knowing what your odds are.

Make a business plan - doesnt have to be extremely detailed.

Prototype your wallet at least 4-5 different designs - pick one then make sure the edges are right, stitching, every tiny detail - make the last prototype then test it and then the final production after tweaks if necessary.

Try different leathers that are available - it looked like you found the cheapest hide from tandy or SLC and then made a wallet as fast as you could then made an even faster video and kickstarter pledge. Take 3-4 months if you need to take out any flaws in production or polish up any areas.

[leatherboundgoodsco]

Theres a difference between what you want and what you will receive. Try to get a 2.5k pledge and hopefully you get 3-4k making it approx. 2-3k net profit after taxes, paypal fees, kickstarter fees. Use that to finance the machine or submit your business plan to try to get a business loan for equipment.

From the start it should have been apparent that the goal was set too high for the pricing. People think kickstarter is easy money but if someone selling something similar on kickstarter you are competing with them. (not saying you, but it should be a properly planned like an actual business proposal to a bank or entrepreneur - think shark tanks or dragons den) Honestly if you did try it 2 times already on kickstarter and they both failed it should be indicative to something thats going wrong, not planning.

You need to put more prep in otherwise however many times you try it will most likely not succeed, you could fail 8 times before you make a single pledge by luck. Some plans after writing them out you will realize they are bound to fail so its like trying to sail a boat across the ocean without the checking if theres enough water, food, if there is abnormal weather, maintenance of the boat, or even the path planned out.

Chances of succeeding on a boat without any prep is 10 percent. If a huge company like Nike for instance makes a sub company and for some odd reason put it on kickstarter they could probably get away without even putting too much planning since they have facilities and the connections and the brand behind them (even if they hardly tried they have proper graphic designers, industrial designers, production managers, production workers, highly skilled videographers. Without planning there success rate is 60-80 percent on a kickstarter pledge. Even a big companies chances decrease (by much less than me or you) if they don't plan, for reasons you encountered. With planning and taking a few months for prototypes and testing materials, getting the shipping distribution and costing their success rate increased by 20ish percent.

If you did all the planning (every thing above) your success rate will be 75-80 percent without it is down to 20-30 percent and sometimes even less than 5 percent or 0 if the plan is totally off, making it more like gambling and hoping it works rather than planning and knowing what your odds are.

Make a business plan - doesnt have to be extremely detailed.

Prototype your wallet at least 4-5 different designs - pick one then make sure the edges are right, stitching, every tiny detail - make the last prototype then test it and then the final production after tweaks if necessary.

Try different leathers that are available - it looked like you found the cheapest hide from tandy or SLC and then made a wallet as fast as you could then made an even faster video and kickstarter pledge. Take 3-4 months if you need to take out any flaws in production or polish up any areas.

got it. thank you for the Stats.

-Samuel E Baker

[camano ridge]

Samuel, I was not offended at all, just trying to point out some things that may make it difficult for you reach your goal. You might think about revising your kickstart page to say that your goal is to get a laser to improve your products. You may want to offer free lazer engraving of a donors name on there wallet at a certain level other then the $330.00 donor. You are getting our help just in a different way then you thought you would.

[DavidL]

got it. thank you for the Stats.

-Samuel E Baker

Sure no problem. If your willing to take criticism (which you do well), use it and make them into habits. Theres no doubt that the next kickstarter will be able to reach the goal.

Before I was under the assumption that I didn't need a plan and eventually became apparent its impossible to account for everything, to the best way I should make the tiers on kickstarter, to what colours would sell best, which leather will last longer, will this leather have any issues in 2 months time, how much leather to buy for bulk discount, how to reduce cost yet keep the value the same, whens the best time to set it up and 100 more different questions over a 10-20 page business plan.

[ConradPark]

With the number of people that on regular basis do things like this on the forum (trying to get promoted) just to get a ass whopping from this friendly community I can that conclude that most of them are lazy. Because if they actually took the time to check out the forums they would know better than to try in the first place. The one thing on this forum that is not in general appreciated, is the prospect of someone else success in business. I have over the years wondered why so many of the established leather makers and professionals in various leather related businesses always seem to be absent here unless it is to try to promote or advertise. Sad really.

[dirtclod]

I'm not against somebody doing well in business. I don't really like that people come and want money to start their business and you never see them again ! Why are they better than other folks that have to save their money or go to a bank and borrow the money ? More than likely they do both. I was like most people when they started i had NOTHING but i bought a tool or tools when i saved up enough to get them. Doing that i built up the tools that i needed. When i needed a new sewing machine i took what i had saved and borrowed the rest from the bank and made payments. I'm proud for anybody that well it's just i am more proud for some folks than others.

I guess what really gets me is most of the time it's their first post and they ask for money or send your customer to me. Personally i have worked years to get a good customer base and i'm not going to tell them to try so and so espically when i know nothing about their work. People on here have given freely of their knowledge to help some body and lots of the time get told they don't what their talking about and never get a thank you. When i started 30 years ago it was HARD to find somebody that would share anything with you, if they did it was just enough to get you in trouble. You can put me in which ever catagory you want the lazy bunch or the won't tell bunch. I don't care !!

Edited August 11, 2014 by dirtclod