How To Achieve This, Threads Of Different Colors

[kidinsky]

I have seen this quite often in Hermes products, belts, wallets and bags and in some other high end products.

i have asked this question in some other forum and the answer i got is that it cannot achieved by saddle stitch, it's only possible by sewing machines.

i understand the fundamental difference between hand stitching and sewing machines, and this effect can be achieved easily by sewing machines.

but now i saw this customised Birkin with lining in a different color, and color of the thread on the lining side is different from the color of the thread on the outside to match the color of the lining.

i don't believe this Birkin bag is stitched by using sewing machines, and the question comes back again, how to achieve this effect without using sewing machine?

or they didn't use the thread of different colors when stitching, but dye the thread afterwards?

[Tree Reaper]

They're using white for the bobbin thread and pink for the top thread, they meet in the middle of the layers.

To do that by hand an automatic hand awl could be used to stitch the top thread and grab the bottom thread.

[Troy Burch]

You can sew it easy enough by pushing the needle with blue thread thru the hole and looping around the white thread and pulling the cross up in the middle of the leather the same as a machine stitch. A sewing awl might make it easier to grab and pull the bottom thread but unless your going to do a lot it may not be worth the trouble.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

That could be done by hand with two different color threads, but it would be a pain in the arse --- my guess is it is machine sewn, or hand sewn, then dyed...

[Macca]

That is machine stitched with a different coloured thread in the bobbin.

Hermes use machines as well as hand stitching some parts.

[kidinsky]

That is machine stitched with a different coloured thread in the bobbin.

Hermes use machines as well as hand stitching some parts.

@Macca,

I know Hermes use sewing machine for some of their products, but i am quite sure their iconic Birkin are purely hand stitched. and i don't believe that they will switch to sewing machines just because they want to use threads with two different colors. Think about it, you sacrificed the most valuable part of your product to achieve this effect, it's hard for me to accept it.

Edited December 7, 2014 by kidinsky

[kidinsky]

@

That could be done by hand with two different color threads, but it would be a pain in the arse --- my guess is it is machine sewn, or hand sewn, then dyed...

for me, dye after stitching is the only acceptable way of doing it without sacrificing the saddle stitch. then my question will be can you dye the thread after waxing?

Usually, we wax the thread first, then stitch. if we need to dye the thread after stitching, is it even possible to dye the waxed thread? or you just have to sacrifice something, and it will be the waxing.

but if you ask me to choose between sacrificing the saddle stitch and waxing, i think the answer is obvious.

[kidinsky]

You can sew it easy enough by pushing the needle with blue thread thru the hole and looping around the white thread and pulling the cross up in the middle of the leather the same as a machine stitch. A sewing awl might make it easier to grab and pull the bottom thread but unless your going to do a lot it may not be worth the trouble.

either done by sewing machine or by this tool is the same for me, because we are sacrificing the saddle stitch.

of course thread of one color on one side is a nice feature, but a Birkin without saddle stitch is not a real Birkin anymore.

of course majority of the customer will not see any difference, but as a craftsman, the sacrifice is unacceptable.

[Macca]

@Macca,

I know Hermes use sewing machine for some of their products, but i am quite sure their iconic Birkin are purely hand stitched. and i don't believe that they will switch to sewing machines just because they want to use threads with two different colors. Think about it, you sacrificed the most valuable part of your product to achieve this effect, it's hard for me to accept it.

Handles etc are hand stitched to attach them, but most of the bag you have shown is machine stitched, 2 colour threading like that is only possible with two different threads, so done by machine.

It is normal practice for them to machine stitch as much as possible on all the bags they produce, they didn't switch to a machine to stitch it with different colours, they always use a machine.

[kidinsky]

Handles etc are hand stitched to attach them, but most of the bag you have shown is machine stitched, 2 colour threading like that is only possible with two different threads, so done by machine.

It is normal practice for them to machine stitch as much as possible on all the bags they produce, they didn't switch to a machine to stitch it with different colours, they always use a machine.

I don't know where you got the idea that the Birkin bags are made by sewing machines, i didn't say all their products are made by hand stitching, i have seen some of the watch straps are made by sewing machine, but when it come to their iconic products, such as birkin or kelly bags, it's purely hand stitched.

I have seen multiple videos on youtube and i have also personally seen their craftsman hand stitching kelly bag in at least two Hermes exhibitions, the making of Kelly and birkin bags does not involve using sewing machines. I am quite sure about it.

i also have the chance to toss round several Birkin bags, i have observed closely every single detail of each bag, i am quite sure they use saddle stitch for the whole bag.

I guess you saying Hermes use sewing machines as much as possible is only your assumption.

[Macca]

Lol, ok

You have seen the craftsmen assemble the pieces

You have not seen them stitching the lining by hand because they don't, they use a machine as the picture clearly shows

Want another clue ?

Look at the stitch angle

The hand stitched parts have the normal saddle stitched slant, the machine stitched parts are reversed (& no, before someone jumps in, they don't use reverse pricking irons)

Want more evidence, compare the stitching above the logo (the machine stitched part) to the attached handle

Completely different, one machine, one by hand

[kidinsky]

Lol, ok

You have seen the craftsmen assemble the pieces

You have not seen them stitching the lining by hand because they don't, they use a machine as the picture clearly shows

Want another clue ?

Look at the stitch angle

The hand stitched parts have the normal saddle stitched slant, the machine stitched parts are reversed (& no, before someone jumps in, they don't use reverse pricking irons)

Want more evidence, compare the stitching above the logo (the machine stitched part) to the attached handle

Completely different, one machine, one by hand

I have seen them hand stitching the kelly bag in both exhibitions, if not, what do they need the Blanchard pricking iron for?

and i don't know how to assemble a piece without stitching. glue them, you mean?

the stitching line above the logo, is done by using the reverse pricking iron, unfortunately.

we have enough high end brands promoting their craftsmanship but only using sewing machines, such as LV, GUCCI, MULBERRY.

Hermes is the only one (well known commercial brand) on the market that insisting hand stitching most of their bags, this is why it takes a craftsman 3 to 4 days to finish a birkin bag. and the availability of hermes bags are not comparable to other brands.

i am sure i cannot convince you by saying more in this post, so maybe you can visit Hermes exhibition when it comes to your country and talk to the craftsman.

[Macca]

you are simply wrong, maybe you should look at the evidence, you even asked yourself, how is this lining stitched by hand, answer, its not, its not possible & even looks like its machine stitched. There is no saddle stitch technique that can give different coloured stitching on either side.

I have handled enough Hermes items to spot the machined parts

You have see leatherworkers assemble the finished parts, including stitching the panels together (by hand), but the linings & other parts are machine stitched.

machine stitched above the logo, handle attached by saddle stitch, locking straps are also machine stitched, its pretty obvious

Need more ?

http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=21133261&postcount=77

reply from Hermes posted even stating machine & hand are both used on Kelly & Birkins

They don't like to publicise this obviously, for some reason the thought of a completely hand stitched item seems to help them justify the price.

[kidinsky]

you are simply wrong, maybe you should look at the evidence, you even asked yourself, how is this lining stitched by hand, answer, its not, its not possible & even looks like its machine stitched. There is no saddle stitch technique that can give different coloured stitching on either side.

I have handled enough Hermes items to spot the machined parts

You have see leatherworkers assemble the finished parts, including stitching the panels together (by hand), but the linings & other parts are machine stitched.

machine stitched above the logo, handle attached by saddle stitch, locking straps are also machine stitched, its pretty obvious

Need more ?

http://forum.purseblog.com/showpost.php?p=21133261&postcount=77

reply from Hermes posted even stating machine & hand are both used on Kelly & Birkins

They don't like to publicise this obviously, for some reason the thought of a completely hand stitched item seems to help them justify the price.

OK, something new for me, a bit disappointing but what can i say.

i guess now making a bag fully hand stitched will only push the price to an unreachable level.

[Macca]

Don't be disappointed

The cost of Hermes is not down to an extra few hours hand stitching or not, bags ranging from 10K to 100K are not priced based on the number of hours to make

Things they do better than anyone are styling & the leather they use, those & great marketing !

Edited December 7, 2014 by Macca

[kidinsky]

Don't be disappointed

The cost of Hermes is not down to an extra few hours hand stitching or not, bags ranging from 10K to 100K are not priced based on the number of hours to make

Things they do better than anyone are styling & the leather they use, those & great marketing !

There is another point i want to make in this discussion, the pursuit of perfection is endless, but when it's beyond certain point is it still necessary?

I have heard several craftsman complaining about Hermes products, stitching is not perfect, etc.

I am sure there are craftsman that can do a better job than Hermes craftsman, and i am also quite sure Hermes are capable of achieving better quality by investing more time on each bag or set higher quality standard. but

by focusing more on styling and leather quality will be for sure more effective to make their products more desirable.

this is also the reason why some good craftsman can achieve perfection in craftsmanship but never managed to bring their products to a commercial success.

[DavidL]

perfection starts to become not necessary once theres no "noticeable" difference in perceived quality, in this case machine stitch because of the extreme time it takes to make a bag. It is acceptable that its machine stitch as most luxury bags are. there are more pros to use machines than cons and the fact that they keep it secretive helps. Once they change too much and people start to notice than it hurts the handmade bag value.

A majority of the quality and value is from the heritage and most likely the amount of celebrities, tv references, customer service, sending the bags to get the conditioned every few month, having the store in the high end tourist area in the best corner.

The product is regarded as art by the people buying and they are reaching for emotional/status needs rather than focusing on price. Buying a bag for 100k for its features is unlikely as there are bags for 200 dollars that do the same thing. Buying a bag and regarding it as an art piece that holds social value is more likely.

[Tramps Leatherworking]

Anyone who would pay 10k for a bag, has more money than sense...