Redying a Problem Case

[Bree]

A local musician called me and posed a problem. He has a saxophone case made by a pretty famous leathercrafter/artist named Glenn Cronkhite. The case is pretty expensive. It is Chocolate Brown in color. Well it seems that he somehow got some acetone on the case and of course it did some damage to the color and texture of the leather.

My first thought was to send him back to Glenn. The maker knows what he used and how he finished the case. He is the person best able to repair problems. Of course I wasn't sure that even Glenn could rescue this case as the damage was going to be very tough to bring back to original condition.

I suggested that if Glenn could not fix the problem that the final resort was to redye the case black or dark brown. In effect... nuke the case color. I also told him that he could black only 1/2 of the case leaving a black/brown two-tone if he wished. Glenn likes to make two-tone cases so this would not be all that different from others in the line.

Well Glenn pretty much told him what I told him about the case and helped him with the texture but the color was not acceptable to to the musician. So he wants it redyed. I tried hard to steer this thing back to Glenn but it looks like I am going to be stuck fixing the case for the guy.

So I am wondering what you guys and gals might suggest for a high end musical instrument case made of quality leather with a color flaw? My thought was to mask off the metal and interior components and deglaze any top coat. Then take an alcohol based black dye and carefully sponge on 2 layers of new dye to get a smooth even coverage followed by some Tan Kote or similar and some nice hand rubbed buffing. I can't spend a ton of time on this job. It is not going to bring in any substantial $$$ but I would like to see his nice case be nice again.

Any other ideas or suggestions?? Do you think I am on the right track? Wrong track?

[Bree]

Zero recommendations???

Shoot, I am going to end up doing what I planned to do and have nobody to blame but myself if I mess up the guy's expensive case!!

[The Major]

Its really hard to make a recommendation without actually seeing the damage. Is it possible to post some pictures and we'll take it from there.

[Bree]

Its really hard to make a recommendation without actually seeing the damage. Is it possible to post some pictures and we'll take it from there.

Yes I have some but they are not very good. I also have a Photoshop image to show what it might look like after a monotone dye job. I did a virtual dye job! LOL!

The first 3 PIX show the damage near the edge of the case and the last two PIX are Photoshop renditions of what a dye fix might look like.

[The Major]

Awesome virtual dye job.

That body looks like chrome tanned leather so this is going to be fun. The good part is there isn't much texture to the leather

This is what I would suggest. Hit that area with deglazer. I wouldn't do the whole thing, but take that finish off for about 2 inches around the stain.

Once your deglazer has dried, Now clean it. I would recommend using some dawn and a tooth brush. Rinse using a spray bottle, you want to try not to re-deposit the stain. Repeat a couple times. let it dry. See if it lightened it up at all. It should have lightened it up some. Now comes the fun part. Use a piece of 1200 grit sand paper and hit the stain.

Now airbrush or shoot the color on. Obviously start light and work it up. I would recommend using diluted acrylics.

Now finish it.

Good luck

[Bree]

Awesome virtual dye job.

That body looks like chrome tanned leather so this is going to be fun. The good part is there isn't much texture to the leather

This is what I would suggest. Hit that area with deglazer. I wouldn't do the whole thing, but take that finish off for about 2 inches around the stain.

Once your deglazer has dried, Now clean it. I would recommend using some dawn and a tooth brush. Rinse using a spray bottle, you want to try not to re-deposit the stain. Repeat a couple times. let it dry. See if it lightened it up at all. It should have lightened it up some. Now comes the fun part. Use a piece of 1200 grit sand paper and hit the stain.

Now airbrush or shoot the color on. Obviously start light and work it up. I would recommend using diluted acrylics.

Now finish it.

Good luck

Sounds like you are wanting to try to match the color and feather it in or do you think I should nuke it black??

If I do the whole case shouldn't I deglaze all of it?? BTW The guy called about 30 minutes ago while I was on a conference call. He will be calling back in about a half hour! LOL! He is persistent.

Edited November 13, 2008 by Bree

[The Major]

Yeah if you want to match it, then yes I am trying to tell you that. If the customer doesn't care, nuke it, just make sure you have him sign something saying it is ok.

There really is no need to deglaze the whole thing. Every jacket, case, and car seat I have ever repaired, I only concerned myself with about 2 inches around the trouble area. With proper prep, and finishing, there is no need do remove the whole finish. It also helps reduce the amount of other things that can possibly go wrong.

If you are going to nuke the case, then you will have to deglaze all of it.

[hidepounder]

Bree....I've run into these chemical stains before and have had zero luck restoring the leather! I think it's time to go black! I hope there's not a texture change where the acetone is. Definitely deglaze everything first! The Major's idea may be worth a try...that's a really intersting approach! I would still be concerned that over time the original color and repaired color may not age the same. If there's no budget and no time.....I'd tell the customer how great it will look black!

A local musician called me and posed a problem. He has a saxophone case made by a pretty famous leathercrafter/artist named Glenn Cronkhite. The case is pretty expensive. It is Chocolate Brown in color. Well it seems that he somehow got some acetone on the case and of course it did some damage to the color and texture of the leather.

My first thought was to send him back to Glenn. The maker knows what he used and how he finished the case. He is the person best able to repair problems. Of course I wasn't sure that even Glenn could rescue this case as the damage was going to be very tough to bring back to original condition.

I suggested that if Glenn could not fix the problem that the final resort was to redye the case black or dark brown. In effect... nuke the case color. I also told him that he could black only 1/2 of the case leaving a black/brown two-tone if he wished. Glenn likes to make two-tone cases so this would not be all that different from others in the line.

Well Glenn pretty much told him what I told him about the case and helped him with the texture but the color was not acceptable to to the musician. So he wants it redyed. I tried hard to steer this thing back to Glenn but it looks like I am going to be stuck fixing the case for the guy.

So I am wondering what you guys and gals might suggest for a high end musical instrument case made of quality leather with a color flaw? My thought was to mask off the metal and interior components and deglaze any top coat. Then take an alcohol based black dye and carefully sponge on 2 layers of new dye to get a smooth even coverage followed by some Tan Kote or similar and some nice hand rubbed buffing. I can't spend a ton of time on this job. It is not going to bring in any substantial $$$ but I would like to see his nice case be nice again.

Any other ideas or suggestions?? Do you think I am on the right track? Wrong track?

[Bree]

HP...

Glenn got the texture corrected but he was unable to acceptably match the color. I didn't expect that he would as the stain was blotchy and irregular. I told that to the customer. Now The Major's method might well work if you can get a color match. Glenn is the guy who knows exactly what he used and maybe he even has some from the same batch and run. But it didn't work out.

So I have tried to have the maker do the fix and that didn't work so I see no real choice but to nuke the case. It's the only way to cover and blend that stain and do so affordably and with little risk. If I spend a lot of time the price is going to quickly jump to the cost of a new case. That won't work.

What do you think about the issue of using an alcohol or solvent based stain versus an acrylic dye? Plusses and minuses?

[Kevin]

I have mixed Edge-Kote and a cream leather conditioner together and gotten pretty good results on worn corners, its pretty forgiving and you can control the shade with the mixture. I would think acrylic dye would work even better. Good Luck, Kevin

[hidepounder]

HP...

Glenn got the texture corrected but he was unable to acceptably match the color. I didn't expect that he would as the stain was blotchy and irregular. I told that to the customer. Now The Major's method might well work if you can get a color match. Glenn is the guy who knows exactly what he used and maybe he even has some from the same batch and run. But it didn't work out.

So I have tried to have the maker do the fix and that didn't work so I see no real choice but to nuke the case. It's the only way to cover and blend that stain and do so affordably and with little risk. If I spend a lot of time the price is going to quickly jump to the cost of a new case. That won't work.

What do you think about the issue of using an alcohol or solvent based stain versus an acrylic dye? Plusses and minuses?

Bree...I don't see any problem using a solvent based dye. My experience stops right there though,...I've never used acrylics. It should be fairly easy to come up with a color that covers up the stain and still gives you a brown hue, but it might be time consuming because of drying time. If the first color is not dark enough, you can dye it darker. Might be best to just jump in with a dark brown if he doesn't want the case black. The only downside to using a solvent based dye that I can think of is the obvius one...once you start, there's no going back. If a brown tone doesn't work you can always go black. I can't tell you why, but black takes a lot of buffing to remove the reisidue and be sure it's really dry before you apply a sealer. Let me know how it turns out.

[The Major]

My question is how did you fix the texturing problem. If you used sand paper, that grain is now open and you will have a heck of a time getting spirit dyes to maintain an even color. Thus the reason I recommended highly diluted acrylics.

You will get the same aging as the rest of the leather if done properly, it will not crack, texture will match.

Finally, unles you do go black, that area may not accept the new color as the rest of the body. Also if it is chrome tanned as it looks like in the picture, you will probably get rub off. So hopefully your finish doesnt crack because of loose dyestuffs on the surface.

[hidepounder]

My question is how did you fix the texturing problem. If you used sand paper, that grain is now open and you will have a heck of a time getting spirit dyes to maintain an even color. Thus the reason I recommended highly diluted acrylics.

You will get the same aging as the rest of the leather if done properly, it will not crack, texture will match.

Finally, unles you do go black, that area may not accept the new color as the rest of the body. Also if it is chrome tanned as it looks like in the picture, you will probably get rub off. So hopefully your finish doesnt crack because of loose dyestuffs on the surface.

That's a really good point! I wish i knew more about acrylic dyes....

[Bree]

Bree...I don't see any problem using a solvent based dye. My experience stops right there though,...I've never used acrylics. It should be fairly easy to come up with a color that covers up the stain and still gives you a brown hue, but it might be time consuming because of drying time. If the first color is not dark enough, you can dye it darker. Might be best to just jump in with a dark brown if he doesn't want the case black. The only downside to using a solvent based dye that I can think of is the obvius one...once you start, there's no going back. If a brown tone doesn't work you can always go black. I can't tell you why, but black takes a lot of buffing to remove the reisidue and be sure it's really dry before you apply a sealer. Let me know how it turns out.

I thought of that... once you go black there's no going back!

Here's what happened... the young man and his girlfriend just left. They play in a saxophone quartet. They are probably late teens. He has never owned a new car.

He has a tiny tenor saxophone made of silver. It's about 14" long! The cutest darn thing I have ever seen. It is probably 75 years old. He has the original case which is made of wood, fabric, and velour. The Cronkhite case interior has thick fabric covered memory foam which fits the sax like a glove... unlike the original case where the sax bounces around.

This young man loves this sax and sees his future playing it professionally. So I examined the case with that in mind. The leather is chrome tanned pigmented leather. It has distinct color layers on the top, middle, and bottom telling me that a pigment dye was applied to both sides almost certainly at the tannery. The center layer is undyed showing the chrome tan color. The leather was supple and actually looked aged despite being fairly new. He applied some Meltonian dye to the damaged area and it gave a near match though slightly lighter and obviously newer looking... glossier... less dingy than the original which appeared to me to be designed to look a little distressed.

The case work is quite complex and there is a lot of stitching and attachments. The strap is matched with leather attachment points and matching brown webbing. Not a good sign for nuking the case black. It would not be an easy dye job. Deglazing would be necessary and lots of masking of things that you wouldn't want the dye to contact. All in all a lot of work on a small item.

But as I talked to the young man and saw his love for the sax and this case, I began to think about the blues guitarist Jimmy Thackery who I know. Jimmy would come to concerts with several guitars but he would always default to his old 60's era Fender Stratocaster. That guitar was so beat up it looked like it came out of the trash heap. But it was customized to his liking and it was his constant companion for his entire career. He loved that guitar.

One day someone stole his Strat at a gig. He was heartbroken. He got a new guitar but clearly it pained him deeply. Luckily he recovered the guitar and continued knocking out new albums and great blues with his spirit renewed.

Now I thought to myself... this young man is headed where Jimmy has been. That sax is just like Jimmy's Strat. And the Cronkhite case will be part of the journey. It is going to get banged around dented, scratched, tossed and turned in every way. Yet he will keep coming back to that sax and that case.

Nuking the case is just going to take away one of his stories about his beloved equipment. Better to let it age gracefully and show its battle scars then try to make as if new something that by its nature is designed to become worn and tattered.

Well I shared these feelings with him and showed him my own motorcycle riding half chaps purchased a number of years ago in Sturgis and which I have never ever cleaned. The original bugs may still be embedded in that leather. The top grain has been abraded off to where half of the leather looks like Nubuc. My chaps... Jummy's guitar... Jake's sax case... they are all peas in a pod.

Well Jake was in seventh heaven. I guess he heard what he secretly wanted to hear. Because he truly didn't want to nuke the case. He came to understand that the damage was just like the first scratch in your new car (which he hasn't experienced yet)... it's inevitable. It's like a knot in wood... it is a sign of authenticity... of genuineness.

We made two new friends and they invited us to come to their next concert. He has his case and instructions from his leather doctor Bree to use his hand to rub the section that he tried to repair while he is watching TV and sooner or later the sheen that differentiates the repair from the original will fade and it will all blend together... not perfectly but in just the right way. And he will talk about dropping the acetone on the case and fretting about it and meeting someone who understood what he really wanted and kept that case natural with its first battle scar intact.

Thanks guys for your ideas and thoughts. I explained everything we talked about to him. I explained all about his leather the likely construction of that case and what would have to be done to "fix" it. But then I sent him down a different path and he was very, very happy!

And I am happy too.

[The Major]

Great idea. Glad there was some positive resolve.

[hidepounder]

Not only are you a Leather Doctor, but a pretty darn good Psychologist as well! Great job Bree!

[Bree]

Here's a snip of the email I found in my Inbox today...

Bree...

So, this morning I left home to get my case fixed only to return realizing it was never broken. You taught me a lot today and, though I'm sorry to say, I might not always remember the fine details of the leather 101 lesson, I certainly won't forget the life lesson I came home with. The story behind the spot on my case is no longer about acetone or a careless accident, it's a reminder of you, a very friendly cat, and the big picture - quite frankly I hope it never fades. When I am older, assuming I will be so fortunate, I will have one hell of a good story for that spot, very little of it involving acetone.

Pretty cool young man. He invited us to one of their concerts and promised that there would be tickets wating at the door.