25b Report post Posted February 20, 2015 Sometimes (often) I have trouble trying to figure out how long to make the foundation of different knots. I've seen others use the 2-part epoxy putty stuff as well as leather or rawhide. But my problem is it is difficult to know what the finished size of the tightened knot is going to be, so that makes it difficult to know how long and/or thick to make the foundation under it. Any hints on this that anyone would care to share? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tucker6591 Report post Posted February 20, 2015 Electrical tape works pretty well for me. Its stiff and you can resize it by cutting with a knife if need be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25b Report post Posted February 20, 2015 That is an idea, but I dislike all the "goo" (for lack of a better word) produced by electrical tape over time. I wonder if gaffer's tape may work...it has less adhesive, so hopefully wouldn't get messy after a while. I was sort of hoping for something a little heavier as I would like for my braided items to have a little more weight to them...I guess that's just personal preference though... Thanks for your reply.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millwright Report post Posted February 21, 2015 If you use "button string" then your finished knot shouldn't be any bigger than your foundation. Calf hide and parts of horse hide, from what I've found, are so thin they don't "build up" the knot any bigger than what they're covering. You might try making your foundation with regular weight string, not button string, and sand it with sand paper to shape and size it like you want before covering with the button string. I'm no expert by a long shot, just my thoughts. Bret Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25b Report post Posted February 21, 2015 What is "button string"?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millwright Report post Posted February 21, 2015 Thinner string, usually from a calf, that covers the foundation of the knot. Here's a regular body string against some calf/button string. It's more flexible because it's thinner so it looks better, wraps/lays better around buttons, and doesn't cause your knot to build up bigger/larger. I don't know much, so if I'm off here somehow, somebody step in and add to it. Bret Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25b Report post Posted February 21, 2015 I appreciate you reply, but it doesn't really answer my original question... I want to understand how folks know how long their finished knots are going to be so that the foundation (knot plus tape, putty, etc.) ends up being the correct length for the knot that will cover it. Sorry if I'm not explaining it so that it makes sense. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millwright Report post Posted February 21, 2015 Sorry I'm not following you very well. You're wanting to know how wide to cut strings, or how many bights/parts to make a knot to cover a particular size foundation? You make your foundation the size you want the finished knot to be, then cover it with button string. I start tying a 4 bight and then interweave until it's all covered, or raise it to a 6 bight and if they're still gaps start an interweave until all the gaps are filled. If it still don't come out right, too bunched up or not enough gap for another interweave, I cut it off and use different size string. The string in one of the earlier pics is a cut off..didn't fit, I didn't like it. I still may not be getting you any closer to an answer. I'm not sure what you're asking. What kind of knot are you tying? How long? application? pics? We'll keep talking about it until something's figured out. I'll tell you again, I'm new to all this, not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I would like to know/understand more and this is a good way to do it. Bret Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KnotHead Report post Posted February 22, 2015 Well. Here's some advice I got from another very accomplished braider. " Make the foundation. Build the knot to fit that foundation. " This comes with practice. Here's Tim George giving great advice and wisdome on this subject. Please just don't watch the video, but please do listen to what he is saying as he works. Of course there are math formulas out there that MIGHT work. But the things they don't consider are the many variables that it takes to fit a certain foundation. Sometimes (often) I have trouble trying to figure out how long to make the foundation of different knots. I've seen others use the 2-part epoxy putty stuff as well as leather or rawhide. But my problem is it is difficult to know what the finished size of the tightened knot is going to be, so that makes it difficult to know how long and/or thick to make the foundation under it.Any hints on this that anyone would care to share? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millwright Report post Posted February 24, 2015 Hope Knothead posted what you needed 25b. That's a dang good video Knothead. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KnotHead Report post Posted February 24, 2015 Well thank you very much. I thought it was too. I keep a copy of it to keep me reminded of his wisdom and skill. He's a dang awesome braider. Brian... Hope Knothead posted what you needed 25b. That's a dang good video Knothead. Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25b Report post Posted February 24, 2015 (edited) Yeah, I've seen Tim's videos and talked to him. He is a really nice fellow. I wish I had the time and money to go up there and try to learn as much as possible from him...watching him braid is mesmerizing. I do listen to what he's saying too though...I understand how to "raise" a knot from 5x4 to 7x6 to 9x8 and all...it is more difficult when trying to use the "special" knots to cover longer areas...i.e. the so-called "long cowboy knot"...have no idea how big an area it should cover. I know he said to just make the foundation and build the knot to fit it...that is a lot easier said than done, so... Edited February 24, 2015 by 25b Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
25b Report post Posted February 25, 2015 I guess I've pretty much given up on this. I think what I'm going to do is just measure the finished height of these knots (for each different width of lace I use) and then log it all in one of my knot logbooks...that way, I'll know how big to make the foundation before I try to build the knot over it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
