Help Sharpening Vergez Blanchard L'indispensable Knife

[apriori]

I have had the Vergez Blanchard L'indispensable knife for a few days now and I can't seem to get it very sharp.

I am sharpening at 15 degree angle on 1000/3000 grit japanese whetstone, pulling back with one finger on the blade to ensure it evenly makes contact with the stone, while my other hand controls the backward and forward motion. I do around 20 strokes for each side of the blade and for both the 1000 grit and 3000 grit sides of the stone. I finish off by stropping it on my leather strop with green rouge.

I have tried sharpening it about 3 times now and its not really getting me anywhere.

I have tried looking at several guides/youtube videos trying to replicate the process as best as I can but to no avail. Can anyone see where I am going wrong? Is it technique, diamond hone vs whestone, proper knife position, more patience with this type of steel?

Its getting frustrating spending so much on a knife when at this point my $2 xacto knife is out performing the $50 knife.

Any help is much appreciated!

[ClaireAshton]

Hi,

Without being able to see your action, It's a fair bet you increase the angle momentarily at the end of every sweep as you lift off, thus ruining all the good work of the sweep.

The best way to easily get round this is to stop with blade in position and then deliberately lift directly upwards. Ideally a jig with correct angle would solve the issue.

Out of interest I sharpen the blade of my utility knife and I haven't changed it for ages and it is sharper than new. I just strop on leather and on papers to 12000 grit.

[ClaireAshton]

http://www.fineleatherworking.com/image/cache/data/tools/blanchard-indispensable-01-960x906.jpg

I think this is the knife.

If so the above is not applicable as it looks a curved blade. This needs to be removed from handle and worked in a circular motion initially and the in a curved sweep. Difficult to describe and best viewed on youtube. Try search ok n sharpen convex knife.

Al Stohlman's book on Tools gives diagrams I believe. Treat it as small section of head knife.

Good luck!

[TwinOaks]

It might be the 'pulling back' that's the issue. When you get the edge extremely thin it will actually bend to the side while sharpening. That's called a 'burr'. The edge will just kinda flop back and forth, but on a veeeeeeery small scale. Then, when you try to cut something, that edge rolls right over and you're trying to cut with a rounded edge. Try pushing the blade forward, which remove the burr, then strop at an angle.....as in don't pull the blade straight back on the strop, pull like you're slicing something. That will have the strop polishing across the grind marks.

And if you do have the curved blade...just pull along the curve, like stropping a round knife.

[DavidL]

First you might want to determine if it is carbon steel or much harder to sharpen, tool steel. If its the latter you need a ceramic or diamond stone. The regular whetstones without ceramic or diamonds only polish the steel.

Murray carter has a video on razor sharpening where he sharpens back and forth on the stone, once the burr is felt on the finger he carefully does pulling towards strokes lightly until the burr is removed and he repeats on the other side. Same is done on the next stone plus the compound.

[texback]

Something else to consider is the original angle on the knife edge. If it wasn't already at 15 degrees it will take a while with that fine of grit to get the edge sharp. Might try using a coarser grit to get the initial edge you are looking for then go with the finer grit to polish it up, followed by stropping.

[howie696]

Or just stick with the old Stanley trimmer

[CustomDoug]

This knife blade is described as "High Strength Steel for Tool" (via google translator).. I personally have no idea what that means for choosing a stone (or two), but it's also mentioned that the blade can be SHAPED and re-shaped many time (because of the long length) - so it sounds like it wouldn't be a hard thing to do. I have this knife too and honestly I reach for the exacto more often than not... but that's because I've had a hard time sharpening the L'indespinsible too (not that I've concentrated on learning to do it right). I definitely do plan to make this my go to knife though - so apriori please keep us updated on what you figure out.

Edited March 1, 2015 by CustomDoug

[Tannin]

Because of the type of hand tool this is, I would guess that it is made of carbon steel (with a Rockwell hardness of around ~R58-R62). Also, the cutting edge is really very small. And it is rather expensive. So I would have expected this tool to be exceptionally easy to sharpen & hone and that it would readily hold a good edge. So I am wondering if maybe one of 4 things is happening:

1. Your sharpening technique is wrong
2. You actually have it sharp already but just don't realize it
3. Poor tool (e.g. poor or defective steel).

#3 seems unlikely but possible. Was it sharp when it arrived?

#2 How do you test/evaluate sharpness?

#1 Sharpening effectively takes some practice. It has become something of a hobby/minor obsession for me. Here are some thoughts, in addition to what has already been suggested above:

a. When sharpening, you need to establish your sharp cutting edge with the coarsest stone before moving on. Essentially your first stone is really all you need, the rest is just finishing.

b. I would have thought 1000 grit would have been about right for maintaining this knife, assuming it arrived sharp. If it did not arrive sharp, then you might need to start with a coarser stone* (e.g. 480 grit waterstone or small 240 grit wet grinder) - or spend *a lot* of time with your 1000 grit stone!

BTW what sort of cutting edge are you aiming for? As a woodcarver, I normally/habitually sharpen to a flat "Scandi" (Scandinavian) grind. I would suggest a flat-bevel Scani-grind for this knife - which is like a mini-version of my own English paring knife (~£5/$7.50). Other options include: convex/concave/secondary-bevel/micro-bevel, each has advantages & disadvantages.

[Tannin]

...of course, I could be wrong: Blanchard might have used HSS (High Speed Steel) rather than regular carbon steel. In which case, you'll likely get a very hard wearing cutting edge but one that might require high speed grinding on a bench grinder (which would heat & ruin normal carbon steel tools). Perhaps that would work for professionals(?) - it doesn't appeal to me though: love carbon steel :D.

I have some tools made in Sweden which use "bearing steel". They have extremely durable, extremely sharp edges but which are easily maintained by light honing/polishing. I'm not a metallurgist but I think they are some type of carbon steel, perhaps somewhere between regular carbon steel & HSS? And no doubt some of the "magic" is added by the blacksmith (Hans Karlsson &, now, sons) who makes & tempers them.

It might even be some kind of stainless steel (e.g. 440) but waterstones should be able to handle that fine.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Tannin

[lwm803]

I start any new knife on a coarse stone until it comes around to the angle that I stroke the stone rather than trying to match the manufacturer's angle precisely. In most cases close is close enough. From that point on it is a simple matter to keep it sharp on finer grit abrasives and or a good strop as the angle comes more natural to my own grip. I have not been trained to do this, it is simply the method that I picked up over 50+ years of sharpening my own knives, tools and implements. If you have ever noticed that it is easier for you to restore the edge on your own knives than those previously sharpened by someone else you have proven my point here.

[Mikewhy]

As you look at the edge, do you see the scratches from your stone as you sharpen? As you progress through finer grits, is your edge becoming more and more polished? Are the deeper scratches from the coarser grits completely obliterated at each step? At each step, are you able to raise a burr the length of the edge? At the finest grit, are you getting a mirror polish the full width of the edge?

I make my own knives from lathe parting tools, M2 HSS. I sharpen the width of the parting tool. I form the bevel on an 8" bench grinder. A belt sander or (best) belt grinder would work just as well. I sharpen on wet/dry paper on a granite plate, 220 grit, 320, 400, 600. A few strokes on the strop with green paste puts a mirror polish on the edge, and also at the top of the hollow grind. If you started with a belt grinder, the whole bevel will be a flat mirror.

My first effort took literally about a half hour from start to finish. Most of that was on the grinder and the 220 grit to shape and clean up the bevel. Successively finer grits take progressively shorter, ending with about 20 strokes a side on the 600 grit. I then strop until each stroke on the strop raises a full length burr. When it takes more than about a minute to strop up the burr, I put it on the 600 paper again. Sometimes, clumsy handling makes clean up with coarser grits necessary.Except for deep dings, this too goes very fast.

Learn to sharpen straight edged tools first, chisels or wood planes, for example. Everything else will come easy once you learn to polish a mirror onto that edge.

[Palermo]

We shoe makers make those knives out of hacksaw blades. Take to a skilled shoe repair or shoe maker and they will show you.