Head Knife Vs. Skiving Knife

[HippieLee]

Billy, practice and a sharp blade go a long way to getting the feeling of control. In my very limited use so far I could tell I got better at controlling it as I used it more and much better when it was sharp. I was stropping it before almost every cut..which I imagine is a consequence of it being a tandy blade lol. But the cuts I got when it was sharp were so good it's worth all the extra stropping.

[zuludog]

Remember, as all the books & videos tell you, that it's easier to use and control a very sharp knife than a blunt one

[Wicked Welts]

'Sharper Is Safer' has been a motto of mine for a while now, only after learning the hard way of course!

Monica, if it wasn't for my cheesy bump post I'd be voting for this thread to get stickied. There's almost TOO MUCH information for this noob and my brain has stretched almost as much as my list of must-have sharps has!

[MonicaJacobson]

Ha, yes, it's fun to see what surfaces when it comes to tool preferences.

@Tramp, interesting idea about the instability of clicker knives. I tried to use a dexter knife: but I think it was too long, and required too much force for a good cut.

[Oldtoolsniper]

Monica,

The blanchard knives are not High Speed Steel (HSS) that steel is used for drill bits, lathe tools and other applications where " High Speed" is used. That is where the name comes from. You can sharpen it with wet/dry sandpaper or most any stone however, since it's used in drill bits, lathe tools and other applications where precision counts a jig for maintaining the angle and a grinding wheel is the preferred method of sharpening.

I own a blanchard skiving knife. This knife IS NOT HSS, in fact I can't imagine why anyone would manufacture a hand tool out of high speed steel unless it was for Edward Scissors Hands. How could you possibly wield it at high speed by hand?

I sharpen the blanchard and 90% of my tools both leather and wood working with wet/dry sandpaper on 1/4" thick shelf glass. Google "Scary Sharp" method and you will find lots of detailed instructions. It's and easy way to get into super sharp tools for not a lot of cash outlay. The learning curve is relatively short and you really only need to learn sharpening, not stone flattening, reading Japanese for the water stones, cleaning up oily and watery messes and storing each type of system. Sandpaper fits in a file folder and the glass can go on a shelf.

You mentioned your husband is a woodworker. He may already be set up with the scary sharp system. Take a look at any gouges he may have. They will cut leather as well as carve wood. Chisels and hand planes will work on leather too. I mention the carving tools because there are a gazillion types and shapes of them, there is a perfect corner rounder out there in any size and sweep you can imagine. Size is width and sweep is the curve. They are cheaper than most " leather tools". I get most of mine at flea markets and garage sales. Don't be afraid to grind a chisel into the shape you want. If it's a $1 yard sale chisel it's good to learn on.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Oldtoolsniper

[Oldtoolsniper]

See if your husband has an extra plane blade. It's the same as a skiving knife with no handle. Sharpen it and give it a shot. A woodworker can make a simple handle from the scrap box in minutes. Not pretty but very functional.

[Wicked Welts]

I'm glad you mentioned the planer blades, I have access to several of them and never thought of it. Now I'm imagining that they would look something like the blade David shows back in post #8?

My MIL has a small trunk full of old hand planes collecting dust in her basement, all different sizes and I remember that all or most of them almost looked like the body was hand made from wood rather than something I'd expect of recent 'mass' production. Not sure if that means anything but what I'm getting at here is a suspicion that the steel in the blades might be a decent high carbon steel, perhaps dating back to the '50s or '60s?

Monica, if you don't mind the derail, I will try to get to those planes this weekend and post some pics of the blades with hope there's some agreement on suitability. There's a dozen or more there and I'd like to use them for something since nobody in the family has a need for them and I'd be glad to send you one if you thought it was useful.

[DavidL]

Wicked welts if the hand planes are small wooden blocks with a japanese plane they could be very valuable. Some go for a 150 just for the blade.

A question I want to ask is if there are any other ways a round knife can be used besides cutting and skiving. Or benefits over a regular pen knife. Using a round knife would suit cutting heavy leathers in one cut and in what I seen cut rounds on belts by cradling the knife back and forth while rotating the belt.

With a japanese or french skiving knife if you need to cut off a straight line you can press down. For long straight lines it is great, tight curves not so great.

[MonicaJacobson]

@OTSniper, the planer blade is a genius idea. Thanks! There are a lot of nice blades out there for only $40.00. I might buy a head knife and make my own skiver, if it works well enough. Thanks also for the sharpening tips

@WW - I'd love to see pictures. Old tools like that are always interesting.

[DavidL]

Monica, heres another one you might want to consider.. sorry..

Was thinking about an alternative to a skiving machine with an edge guide of some sort and saw that video. At very least it may be useful to skive roughly and finish off with a skiving knife.

[Wicked Welts]

Field report on the wood planes -

Monica, after you have a look I will wait a bit and then delete these pics so it doesn't bog things down.

It's been a while since I looked at these, forgot what was in there. I found that most where custom made for profiling trim so the blades where shaped/notched for that purpose.

I did fine two that I could probably use, one straight and one angled plus another thingy that looked more like a draw knife of sorts with an adjustable blade. That one might be capable of skiving down thick spots on a hide maybe?

Lastly there was another smaller chest with more stuff I haven't a clue about, a few production pieces that look to be cast and two other things that looked to be of Martian origin.

Edited April 11, 2015 by Wicked Welts

[MonicaJacobson]

David, thanks for the video. I have seen pictures of those, but didn't know what they were called or how they worked. Thanks a lot. Now I need one of those, too.

@WickedWelts - Very nice collection you have there. My husband (an instrument maker) thought they were awesome, too, and advises against using a blade from any of them. For the price of one of them you can buy a new blade of very good steel. Some of them are worth $30 each (he says), and some are worth $60.00 each. He was especially impressed with the one in the second to last picture with the dark wooden handles.

[bruce johnson]

DavidL, Thank you for the link to that French edger video! I keep forgetting about those clips. There were several little video clips we did for a display of saddle making tools for the local cowboy museum. The videos were done on the fly. The videographer came to my shop one night. We made some hasty scripts, shot the short clips, and did most of them in one shot in a few hours. The actual tools mentioned were all ready for display so I grabbed the closest stand-ins and used them in the videos.

[Oldtoolsniper]

Wicked welts,

I'm with Monica on that don't use those blades as the are made specific to the profile of those planes. The wood ones are profile planes. The production ones are scrapers, etc, send me a pm and I'll get you in the right direction as far as what they are. Then you can go on Ebay and see what they sell for. I've been collecting and restoring planes for years. Plane blades that are worth $150 would be a rare and I do mean rare tool.

Just get a standard plane blade and go to town learning. Don't rule out wood carving tools and chisels you can always reshape the handle. Start with the garage sale and flea market stuff. It's not wrecking it if you learn what not to do while attempting to do what you are doing!

[electrathon]

I thought I would post this simple tutorial about how to not use a round knife and the opposing, how to use a round knife. Note the Leather Wranglers knife for the purpose of, "Yea, I like cool tools".

Rule for a round knife: Always keep your non knife hand close to your body and always cut away from yourself. You will never get hurt this way. See pics.

Edited April 13, 2015 by electrathon

[Wicked Welts]

Hahaha, I love the Ketchup!

Thanks to all for the vid, info and advice. I waffled a bit but I'm taking your advice and I'm not going to steal a planer blade, it just doesn't seem right when somebody could put them to proper use. I'll be talking to my MIL to see if she wants to move them along, hopefully I'll get one of the wooden chests, that's something I would definitely put to good use.

Monica, I apologize for all the pics I put up, had I know there was a time limit on editing a post I wouldn't have done that.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Wicked Welts

[Bob Blea]

OK, my two cents worth...

I have a Leather Wranglers round knife. It's a little different design from the standard round knife and it has a pull cut ability which makes it very easy to cut precise corners. It is a fantastic knife and it does just about everything I need it to do, including skiving in most cases. However, when I'm making my notebooks I make a pen keeper out of a 2.5 inch by .5 inch strip of pigskin and I skive the edges before rolling them over and gluing them down. Because of the size it was really hard to skive with a round knife. After seeing this demonstrated by Paul Zalesak at Leather Wranglers, I was sold on their Tranto skiver. It also works well as a trim knife, but it works great for me for skiving small parts or areas.

My round knife is a necessity for my work, the skiver is more of a luxury but it definitely solved a problem.

Bob

[Wicked Welts]

Thanks for showing that one Bob! In a 'Jack of All Trades' sort of way, I think that Tranto is right up my alley.

Without trying any of the options out there, I think I'd be more comfortable with this shape and size compared to the typical round knife designs and for my current budget, buying one sharp that does several things well (for me - not everybody) is a huge plus.

WAIT - How did this happen?? I was the first responder here and started things off with an ultra low budget cheese ball idea and now I'm budgeting for a $250 knife? WOW! This place is DANGEROUS!

Edited April 13, 2015 by Wicked Welts

[MonicaJacobson]

@WW - don't worry about the pictures. I would never have thought of removing them in the first place.

@Bob - serious drooling. I hadn't seriously looked over the Leather Wrangler knives, but they're beautiful. I love the decorative pins and the design of the blade. You said "most cases" - does the round knife work well enough skiving a 12x12 piece of leather?

[Bob Blea]

Monica, I think any piece large enough for you to have space for your other hand to hold the leather in place while your primary hand skives will work great with a round knife. For my pen keepers it was just really hard to get a finger to hold it securely with the larger blade. But for regular thicknesses of leather on anything as big as your describing I think you would find a round knife to work great. Personally I would buy a round knife first because it is more of a multi-tasker.

And I do really like both my LW knives. They are made from the same steel as the swivel knives and they hold their edge just as well as them too. My knives require very little maintenance.

[rmr]

I just recently received the skiving knife from Knipknives. It feels great in the hand- and so far from what I can tell - it skives much easier and more uniform( for me) than my round /head knives - also from Terry at knipknives

[rawcustom]

Monica, I make skiving knives as well as many others and I can tell you that I like my skiving knife in equal parts to my head knife. You can skive easily with a well sharpened head knife, but there are tasks my skiving knife can perform more easily than my head knife. One of my most common skiving tasks is tapering belt loops on knife sheaths, and I find the straight edge of my skiver is easier to use than the rounded head knife. I also use mine for cutting bevels on sheath welts or acting as an edger and the sharp point can double for a trim knife on reaching tight corners, although I have my own trim knife as well.

There is a lot of conjecture on different steels and uses. High speed tool steels should not be demonized as some make excellent knife blades. Steel performance will be based off of how the steel is made (homogenous dispersion of alloys and impurities), what the steel is made of (wear resistant alloys, or corrosion resistant alloys) and lastly how the steel is heat treated. As a knifemaker I use and test many different alloys for many different applications, and each have a place and more is personal taste. Better steels from good makers will cost more, because the steel costs more, it's much more difficult to work, and most of us pay a professional service to heat treat and hardness test the blade to ensure it meets our required specifications. Simple steel AKA "High Carbon" is cheap, abundant, easy to heat treat, and easier to work.

A big myth is finding steel that will "sharpen easy" and also "hold an edge". The exact properties that will allow a knife to hold it's edge (wear resistance) will resist sharpening efforts since this is just a directed wear effect. There is some truth on the finished grind angle coming into play, that would change the amount of steel required to be removed to sharpen, i.e. thin edges will have less steel and therefore sharpen faster than a thick chisel edge.

The main thing with leather tools is maintenance. Since your tools work best sharp, you should be in the habit of stropping everything before, during and even after use. The more you stay on top, the less problems you will have with trying to sharpen a severely dull knife later. The best knife steels I have found for leather are the high alloyed steels, some classified as high speed steel. The wear resistant alloys keep them sharper much longer, their higher hardness allows them to become sharper than that possible of simple steels, and the ones made correctly can do all of this without being edge chippy or brittle.

I love sharp edges that stay sharp, so I'm not a fan of the high carbon simple steels in my leather work. I have played with them a lot, but they just require a lot more breaks for stropping, or stoning to keep that surgical edge.

[amuckart]

The skiving knives sold by Lisa Sorrell who is an advertiser on this site are excellent. They come insanely sharp, hold a great edge and are easy to sharpen. They're US$78 for both sizes.

http://sorrellnotionsandfindings.customboots.net/product/skiving-knife/

[MonicaJacobson]

Wow, thank you all for the extremely informative responses and recommending your favorite tools. I've got a list $1000 long right now. It's really nice looking, too. I'm going to watch a bunch of videos of these knives in action and try to decide which to get first. I don't say which to get, because obviously it'll have to be more than one. You can't fight fate.

[YinTx]

Monica,

See your post #20, regarding your "dexter" Russell Green River knife: I found one in the pile of tools I had bought, covered in beeswax like it had been used to cut the block. I had discounted it as a useful item considering its current state. Got the nerve to clean it up a few weeks ago, sharpened it on an Arkansas stone, and stropped it with some medium then fine rouge. It has become sharper than any razor blade I have used, much stronger and easier to work around corners, and handles thick layers of hard leather with ease, very little force required. I think these are only $10 - $15 knifes, and it quickly has become one of my most appreciated tools. If you are having difficulties with the one you have, give it the "scary sharp" treatment and try it one more time. I have even been able to skive very cleanly with it, although I feel the long edge is not the best for this type of work. I myself would like to get a regular "skiving" knife, but I can't justify it since I have successfully been using my round or "head" knife to do this job since I learned what "sharp" really meant.

YinTx