Holster Sale Disclaimer

[mgalik]

Hello,

Does anyone include a written disclaimer with there holster sales? My worry is, if someone shoots themselves while holstering/unholstering. Will a disclaimer help to safe guard against legal issues? I have seen big box holster companies include something that states ( firearms are dangerous costumer assumes all responsibility...ect). Also I've seen where those big companies state, not to carry loaded. Im guessing they include that information as a just in case policy. My question is, do you add any written information with your holster sales?

Thank you,

mike.

Edited May 27, 2015 by mgalik

[Thor]

That's a very interesting question. Since I don't live in the US and a law suite like this would be impossible in Germany unless one could proof that the use of the holster did cause an increased risk and the incident would have been prevented by not using the said holster, there wouldn't be any liability on the maker of that holster. That being said, in the states you just never know (caution hot coffee; don't put live animals in the microwave; cruise control will not stop or park for you...). But on the other hand one could say that riding a horse poses the same risk and a saddle maker would have to have such a disclaimer, yet I've never seen such a disclaimer.

However, if in doubt and you want to be certain you should seek the advice of a lawyer and not that of a fellow leather worker, cause none of us will pay your bills if you run into a problem.

[Lobo]

Lengthy disclaimer on the website (my only form of advertising). Written disclaimer included with every product delivered. Business insurance policy with 7 figures of liability coverage.

We can't fix stupid, but we don't have to participate in it.

[mgalik]

10-4.

I hate how people are not responsible for there own actions anymore. That saddle comment makes sense, I never thought about it that way. LOBO, I like your approach thank you for your input, it gives me a direction.

[mlapaglia]

FYI, Disclaimer will NOT prevent a lawsuit. It may help you win depending on which state you live in. It never hurts to include one. Just make sure you have a business insurance policy with 7 figures of liability coverage. Thats for when you lose. Remember the lady that got millions from McDonald's for the Hot Coffee? She was only asking for 20 thousand to cover medical bills. A greedy lawyer and a "helpful" jury gave her the larger figure.

That being said, it all depends on how lucky you feel. Personally I can't depend on luck when it comes to business.

[RVM45]

I remember the story of the Olde Tyme Teas Ranger who carried his 1911A1 cocked and unlocked with the grip safety deactivated with electrician's tape.

An old woman asked him:

"Isn't that pistol dangerous?"

"Damned right it's dangerous!" He replied.

I'd be a little leery of too much warning.

"See? You knew damned good and well that you were selling a dangerous product!"

Firearms are dangerous—like dogs, horses, cattle, automobiles, knives, alcohol, fire, electricity, chain saws, etc.

Safe and prudent handling can lower the risk, but it is always present.

100% safety is unobtainable in this world.

As Jeff Cooper said:

"A man who truly put Safety FIRST would never do anything—and even doing nothing carries certain risks."

…..RVM45

[glockanator]

My mom works for a couple of lawyers who all excersie their 2A rights and lot of them carry my holsters. I have talked with 2 or 3 of them about this and the common answer I got was. "You did not force me to buy this holster or even to put a loaded gun in it. How can you be responsible for that?" so take for what it is worth. Also I am in Utah to give you a general area of the country that I live.

[mlapaglia]

Tha above 2 posts are logical and make sense. Unfortunately we live in a country that is highly litigious and CYA has become the norm. Everyone does what they want to do in this matter. There are good points on both sides of the fence.

[Lobo]

The most overlooked benefit of carrying business liability insurance is that it provides legal representation in the event of a claim. Being the defendant in a lawsuit is not a joke, folks. The costs of defending against a claim can run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, which can easily ruin a small business long before the case gets to court or a judgment can occur. Operating without business insurance leaves the business owner responsible for attorneys' fees, investigation costs, court costs, and all the other expenses of case preparation and trial. I have little real concern about a claim or lawsuit being filed, but I have considerable concern about funding the necessary defense.

My business is incorporated as a limited liability company. In the event of a judgment against the business only the company assets can be attached in settlement; my personal assets (home, retirement funds, savings accounts, etc) are not company assets.

An individual doing business as a sole proprietor, working at home, has far greater exposure. All assets are at risk. We may not think we have all that much, but having it all taken away would be devastating no matter what the total might be.

Anyone who has not done so yet is urged to consult with insurance companies regarding business insurance. Anyone who has not done so yet is urged to incorporate their business as a legal entity separate of their personal finances. You may find that it is surprisingly easy and affordable.

[Red Cent]

The LLC or incorporated business is not always safe from suit or a decision in favor of the plaintiff. Unfortunately, the small. closely held businesses are more vulnerable that the larger corporations with a number of stockholders. There are some instances where the plaintiff can "pierce the corporate veil" and obtain judgement on the principal(s).

[Lobo]

Red Cent is correct. There is no absolute shield contained in incorporated businesses. Other tests may be applied such as co-mingling of funds and accounts, maintaining completely separate accounting and payment procedures, and so forth.

I suggest that any shield is better than no shield at all.

[Red Cent]

I suggest that any shield is better than no shield at all.

What Lobo said.

[GaryNunn]

I was recently researching LLC's for the very reasons stated in this thread. One of the LLC warnings was that even with an LLC, a sole proprietor can still be held personally liable for hand-made products. It went on to specify that if a product was made by an employee, then the sole proprietor can't be held personally liable and THEN they are protected by the LLC. That pretty much blew away my reason for considering an LLC.

Gary

[Lobo]

And those who get all of their legal advice from the internet will get full value for their legal costs.

I stand by my earlier comments. Separate the business from your personal finances by creating a corporate entity, and carry a good business insurance policy. If a problem ever arises let the lawyers deal with it, preferably at the insurance company's expense.

Anything less is just gambling with everything you own on the table all the time.

[mgalik]

WOW, all this legal stuff is really depressing, but mandatory. Thank you for all your comments as this topic seems to be a concern for most. im still selling to family and friends and this legal fear has kept me from expanding to the general public.