New Wade - First Saddle

[AdamTill]

Hi folks,

Due in large part to the info on this site, I finally finished (99% or so of the way) my first saddle this week.

Still needs stirrup twist wraps and hobbles and a little cleaning and conditioning. I would have preferred a mule hide horn wrap, but since this was for my wife, it had to match the seat leather (she won't really be roping out of it). The line of the fork shows though the seat a little in an attempt to keep the rise as low as possible, but the shape seems to ride really nicely.

Rod Nikkel tree, Steve Mason silver.

Any tips or honest criticisms greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Adam

[Goldshot Ron]

The last two "first time" saddles that I've seen posted on this site have looked really good. You did a really good job. I do have some questions for you before I jump in with suggestions. It looks like you have inskirt rigging, right or wrong? How did you make your flank cinch? What size seat is on the saddle? Will this saddle be used on the horse in the photo?

Ron

[AdamTill]

The last two "first time" saddles that I've seen posted on this site have looked really good. You did a really good job. I do have some questions for you before I jump in with suggestions. It looks like you have inskirt rigging, right or wrong? How did you make your flank cinch? What size seat is on the saddle? Will this saddle be used on the horse in the photo?

Ron

Hi Ron. You're right in that I have another one started, but this is the first one is the first I've finished. The other is on hold because I ended up selling the horse it was intended for. I have a third Rod Nikkel tree that I'm going to build off before I go back and finish the first one to sell off (neither of the horses we own fit it anymore, the tree is very wide).

Yes to in-skirt rigging. Going to be running two mohair cinches, so no leather flank cinch. My wife is weaving her cinches right now, so these in the photos are very temporary. Seat is based off a 10 3/8" thigh length, and the tree was made for this horse. It's seeming to sit a little nose down right now because the shearling needs packing down a lot. The tree bars have some accommodations for the short saddle fitting zone on Arabs, and seems to work pretty well so far.

[Tosch]

Adam, when I first saw the saddle/horse combination I was afraid you have become unfaithful to you Icelandic Horse !

I like the saddle, and I like the seat profile. Many happy trails..

[Billy H]

Great Job!

I was thinking the same as Tosch about your Icelandic.

I wish I could find a Icelandic that was 15 hands--- they are such cool horses.

Your cantle binding looks really good from the pictures. They always are a struggle for me. Billy

[AdamTill]

Thanks folks, but man I'm going to break some hearts from the sound of it when I say I sold that Icelandic to a friend. He really wanted to be a trail horse more than a rope horse, and they're happily tolting the trails of northern Alberta together.

Billy, I cheated a little on the cantle binding with the eustachian pins. I didn't want to try an exposed stitch line the first time out, so this was a nice way to cover that up. The binding was getting a little thick too, so it saved a layer of leather to go through.

I also really wouldn't want a 15hh Icelandic, honestly. They're wide horses on average, and I couldn't sit on that guy at 14 hh bareback for any length of time without my hips hurting. Even in a saddle (which need a lot of build up leather to get a narrow enough seat) it was tough to ride with relaxed legs due to the width of the horse.

Now if my current 14hh horse was 15hh I'd be thrilled, but he's a lot narrower and a HECK of a lot easier to fit a tree to. I like the little ones though - turn on a dime if they're set up for it correctly.

Stressed out over hobble training (photo credit to Lee McLean):

Edited June 18, 2015 by AdamTill

[rktaylor]

Well done Adam. While I assume the pins are easier than an exposed stitch line. Regardless you did a nice job on them. I like the in-skirt rigging. Can you post a picture of the rear dee? Is it hand or machine stitched? Thanks,

Randy

Edited June 18, 2015 by rktaylor

[rdl123]

Good Job Adam!

I like the clean overall look of this rig & I think your seat profile from the side view looks good. I believe less rise helps with staying centered - Is that what you find? I'd be interested in more info on this.

Anyhow, excellent overall! This site sure is invaluable for us first time makers - Really ups the ante and helps with relevant info on specific issues.

Looking forward to seeing more of your work! This saddle of yours inspires me to try and do better on the rig I have underway!

Ron L

[BondoBobCustomSaddles]

Nice job Adam. Will be looking for more of your work as you continue. I like this one really well. Now that you have most of the stuff in hand, it's time for you to get at that cantle binding stitch. It just takes time and patience. A little tip, when you are pushing you awl through, just before it comes out the back side you can see where it is going to come out. even if it comes out a little pull it back some and re angle the hole to come out where you want it. The mark or litte prick hole from the first try will close up and not show.

Again, nice job. Keep up the good work.

Bob

[Goldshot Ron]

Adam,

I think you did a fine job on this saddle, especially for a first attempt. I do have some suggestions and comments. First, the placement of the saddle on the horse appears that it is sitting back a little. Your latigo does not appear to be aligned straight up and down. This out of aligned placement shows also in the seat centerline to the horses centerline where the riders center of gravity is back behind the horse's center of gravity. It may be the photo illusion, but the placement of the girth appears to be placed close to the horse's elbow so you may not be able to set the saddle any more forward. Second, I don't understand the rear girth idea. I've only seen two girths used on pack saddles, then they were attached together and not at the normal girth/flank cinch offset. If you're going to be roping, you have to secure your rear off-billet so it doesn't get caught in your loop. Yours is just hanging there.

Two other comments are cosmetic: your horn could be trimmed straighter up and down, and edged rounder, then burnished. And, your border needed the camo (or border stamp) stamped on the bottom like you did on your fork pattern. This adds to better symmetry of your design. Finally, the screw at the fork is too far back towards the seat. It should be placed in the centerline (up and down) of your fork, and about 1 to 1 1/2 inches down from the top edge of the seat jockey. I would have placed it about at the position of the 6th border stamp back from your latigo catcher in your offside photo (photo 5). This avoids pinching the seat leather in and interfering with your stirrups forward swing.

Good luck on your next saddle.

Ron

[AdamTill]

Well done Adam. While I assume the pins are easier than an exposed stitch line. Regardless you did a nice job on them. I like the in-skirt rigging. Can you post a picture of the rear dee? Is it hand or machine stitched? Thanks,

Randy

Hi Randy,

Sorry, forgot to get a closeup, but there's not much to see. It's a Horseshoe Brand rigging D sandwiched into the skirt with a fairing plug, and held on by a couple of copper rivets. Is there something in particular you wanted to see? Basically done like this:

http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=16313#entry179809

The saddle is entirely hand stitched, I don't own a sewing machine yet.

Edited June 22, 2015 by AdamTill

[AdamTill]

Good Job Adam!

I like the clean overall look of this rig & I think your seat profile from the side view looks good. I believe less rise helps with staying centered - Is that what you find? I'd be interested in more info on this.

Anyhow, excellent overall! This site sure is invaluable for us first time makers - Really ups the ante and helps with relevant info on specific issues.

Looking forward to seeing more of your work! This saddle of yours inspires me to try and do better on the rig I have underway!

Ron L

Thanks Ron! The theory is that a flatter seat restricts your seating position less, though I've ridden some seats with a decent rise that still allowed a balanced position. Interestingly enough I'm now going to have to build a set of bucking rolls because the dressage saddle my wife normally rides is more restrictive than this one and she finds it a bit unnerving lol

Edited June 22, 2015 by AdamTill

[AdamTill]

Nice job Adam. Will be looking for more of your work as you continue. I like this one really well. Now that you have most of the stuff in hand, it's time for you to get at that cantle binding stitch. It just takes time and patience. A little tip, when you are pushing you awl through, just before it comes out the back side you can see where it is going to come out. even if it comes out a little pull it back some and re angle the hole to come out where you want it. The mark or litte prick hole from the first try will close up and not show.

Again, nice job. Keep up the good work.

Bob

Hi Bob, thanks tons! I got a good feel for that with the binding even though I ended up hiding it, and the horn stitch line came out well. I'll be doing an exposed stitch line on mine since I think I'll end up with a really narrow cheyenne roll, so we'll see how it goes. This project, while fun, was under a little bit of a time crunch because it was needed for a riding competition, so I didn't want to risk messing up a large area like the seat. Thanks for the tips though, I'll keep them in mind for the next go.

[AdamTill]

Adam,

I think you did a fine job on this saddle, especially for a first attempt. I do have some suggestions and comments. First, the placement of the saddle on the horse appears that it is sitting back a little. Your latigo does not appear to be aligned straight up and down. This out of aligned placement shows also in the seat centerline to the horses centerline where the riders center of gravity is back behind the horse's center of gravity. It may be the photo illusion, but the placement of the girth appears to be placed close to the horse's elbow so you may not be able to set the saddle any more forward. Second, I don't understand the rear girth idea. I've only seen two girths used on pack saddles, then they were attached together and not at the normal girth/flank cinch offset. If you're going to be roping, you have to secure your rear off-billet so it doesn't get caught in your loop. Yours is just hanging there.

Two other comments are cosmetic: your horn could be trimmed straighter up and down, and edged rounder, then burnished. And, your border needed the camo (or border stamp) stamped on the bottom like you did on your fork pattern. This adds to better symmetry of your design. Finally, the screw at the fork is too far back towards the seat. It should be placed in the centerline (up and down) of your fork, and about 1 to 1 1/2 inches down from the top edge of the seat jockey. I would have placed it about at the position of the 6th border stamp back from your latigo catcher in your offside photo (photo 5). This avoids pinching the seat leather in and interfering with your stirrups forward swing.

Good luck on your next saddle.

Ron

Thanks to you too Ron, and for the critiques too - always want to learn how to do things a little better!

>First, the placement of the saddle on the horse appears that it is sitting back a little. Your latigo does not appear to be >aligned straight up and down.

Here's a better photo showing the tree: http://www.easphotography.com/Carly/NewSaddle/8.png

I'm not a firm believer that the latigo has to be vertical, since that's not always the shortest distance between the cinch ring and the saddle rigging. The latigo should be perpendicular to the underline of the horse, but if the underline doesn't parallel the ground, that can put the latigo at an angle. I honestly can't remember if we moved the saddle after the photos, but I'll check where it ends up next time we go out to ride. Also see: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=295408770503673&id=100001036569365&set=a.171624229548795.36485.100001036569365&__tn__=C

>Re: Second, I don't understand the rear girth idea. I've only seen two girths used on pack saddles, then they were attached >together and not at the normal girth/flank cinch offset. If you're going to be roping, you have to secure your rear >off-billet so it doesn't get caught in your loop. Yours is just hanging there.

It's quite an old style of doing things, but here's an example if you look at the 1892 saddle:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=IaN-YaOMhX4C&pg=PA116&lpg=PA116&dq=1892+stock+saddle&source=bl&ots=Jy8_qebUm9&sig=CpGKNKnAcTflU9plmGhXu48Rzac&hl=en&sa=X&ei=lAmIVePPB8fxoASl94-QBQ&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=1892%20stock%20saddle&f=false

My wife hadn't finished her cinches yet, but the the final cinches will have keepers so the tails will be taken care of. I've also used a little 3/8" buckle and tail in the past to hook the free ends together. The advantage of this over a leather rear billet and girth is that you can run the rear snugged up all the time without restricting the horse, since the mohair gives a little bit. I'll be happy if she ever decides to rope anything, but it's a more sensible arrangement until that day comes about. On the world's bounciest Arab, it pays to keep the tail end of the saddle as much under control as possible.

>your horn could be trimmed straighter up and down, and edged rounder, then burnished.

This was a goof on my part. I ended up trimming the horn cap too close to my stitch line, so there wasn't a lot of leather available to round. I may end up redoing the cap later on as a result, but I was running out of time right now.

>nd, your border needed the camo (or border stamp) stamped on the bottom like you did on your fork pattern.

I added it to the fork beacause it seemed a bit empty without, but I can see what you mean. The skirts have the stitch line there, but I could have run the border stamp on the seat since that's not lined.

Thanks also for the note on the placement of the fork screw. I mimicked another saddle I had on hand, but I'll keep your thoughts in mind for next time.

Thanks again!

Adam

Edited June 22, 2015 by AdamTill

[rktaylor]

Adam,

I was just curious how you mounted it. Thanks for linking that thread. I haven't seen it in awhile and it's good info.

Randy

[joe59]

Adam,

I like your saddle. The lines are nice and clean. I especially like your ideas on the rear cincha. I work with a large amount of mules as well as horses and have found that using a cincha on both front and back really stabilizes the saddle in all types of riding. If I could make one observation and comment it would be to change out your rear billets. The single ply latigo, no matter how heavy will not hold up well especially if the horse is straining. When I rig a saddle with the double cinches, I use regular latigos and tie them the same way my near side latigo is tied. By doing it this way, you are doubling the strength. Punch double slots in your catchers so the tails will be more secure and hang them under the seat button.

JOE