Need to vent a little...

[tonyc1]

They look as if they have good definition, though!

Tony.

[GregGaub]

I appreciate everyone's thoughtful input on this.

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe that I'll suddenly become a better tooler with nicer tools. I know that a master can make do with some rusty nails. What I do know is that I'm capable of better work than what I ended up with last night. Of course the recipient thought it was great, but I didn't bother taking photos of it because I'm really not proud of it at all. I know that anyone here would be able to see the mess I made of it.

Could I have done a better job with the tools I had? Probably. I'm sure my initial frustration caused me to make more mistakes, repeating the cycle. With a cooler head, I can see that. But, even knowing all this, and while it might sound petty, I still believe that the tools make enough of a difference that it's worth getting some better ones.

I knew that I'd get a lot of competing votes for various makers, but I didn't expect quite so much of the other kind I got. ;-)

I guess I'll just get those catalogs and try a few different ones.

It's great that there is such stiff competition in the maker's tools market.

[CitizenKate]

The one thing that Tandy Stores has going for it is that the hobbiest can walk in and try out the tools and see what they do before they buy and not have to spend a small fortune to do it. Otherwise that person has to spend the money to go to a show and look at the big name tool makers tools. Those of us know what they cost.

...EXPERIENCE AND PRACTICE MAKE YOU BETTER not some fancy tool. Yes, I buy the fancy tools but that is a diease and an infliction that comes with years of experiance. LOL They should have AA for Leatherworkers! LOL

Agreed... Any discussion we have about tool quality or specialized gadgets for leatherwork should be kept in perspective of these other factors, such as the experience, skill, and budget of the person buying the tools.

Despite what I have observed, I still believe Craftools and the other mass-produced, entry-level tools, are the best tools for beginners to start out with. Experience and skill will make the biggest difference in the quality of one's work. A higher-quality tool will make a difference, in my opinion, but only once the person using it has already developed the skill and discernment to leverage that quality.

Kate

[Tina]

Despite what I have observed, I still believe Craftools and the other mass-produced, entry-level tools, are the best tools for beginners to start out with. Experience and skill will make the biggest difference in the quality of one's work. A higher-quality tool will make a difference, in my opinion, but only once the person using it has already developed the skill and discernment to leverage that quality.

Kate

I agree with you Kate but, sometimes Tandy do send out tools that never should have left the factory in the first place.

Let me give you an example...Last spring I bought some seeders and with my knollage today I would have sent them right back. I paste in a picture, the one to the right is one of the faulty tools I got and the one to the left is an older tool I bought from Ebay, both S630. I also made some inprint with both tools from light tapping to a good wack. This newer tool will never give a good inprint never mind how/what you're doing, it's just wrong.

My 2 cents//Tina

[Dale]

I agree with you Kate but, sometimes Tandy do send out tools that never should have left the factory in the first place.

Let me give you an example...Last spring I bought some seeders and with my knollage today I would have sent them right back. I paste in a picture, the one to the right is one of the faulty tools I got and the one to the left is an older tool I bought from Ebay, both S630. I also made some inprint with both tools from light tapping to a good wack. This newer tool will never give a good inprint never mind how/what you're doing, it's just wrong.

My 2 cents//Tina

Tina,

You've essentially demonstrated the point I was trying to make regarding the defined "proper" use of the tool. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with this tool. It makes a great impression. The problem is that it's being sold as a "seeder" that is to be used in a particular manner to create the illusion of a flower center (or some such nonsense). The tools may not work with their instruction any longer, but they will work. Like I said before...the rules changed. Identify the look you want and then identify the tool/technique that will get you there. The energy spent condemning a tool is energy taken away from the creative process.

Dale

[Tina]

Tina,

You've essentially demonstrated the point I was trying to make regarding the defined "proper" use of the tool. In my opinion, there's nothing wrong with this tool. It makes a great impression. The problem is that it's being sold as a "seeder" that is to be used in a particular manner to create the illusion of a flower center (or some such nonsense). The tools may not work with their instruction any longer, but they will work. Like I said before...the rules changed. Identify the look you want and then identify the tool/technique that will get you there. The energy spent condemning a tool is energy taken away from the creative process.

Dale

Point taken:-)

But...

If you don't have the option of getting to the store in person you have to be able to trust the catalog/online image so you don't get one of these "new" tools, they should get a new number in that case in my opinion, as it is now it's getting to much of a lottery.

I never let "small things" like this take any time away from creative moments, just staying awake for another 5 minutes:-)

[Billy P]

Point taken:-)

But...

If you don't have the option of getting to the store in person you have to be able to trust the catalog/online image so you don't get one of these "new" tools, they should get a new number in that case in my opinion, as it is now it's getting to much of a lottery.

I never let "small things" like this take any time away from creative moments, just staying awake for another 5 minutes:-)

Tina and Dale, while I am no where near as good at leatherwork as alot, probably most of the people that are members of the forum, I think you are both right, but Dale is partially wrong on some things. I have had the same problems with Crafttools that you both have. A while back I bought 2 3-D stamps, the rt. and Left facing eagles. The left facing one gave a pretty good impression, but the right facing one was crap. I called the store where I ordered them and told the manager, who happens to be a good friend of mine. He told me to send it back, however as I was going up that way I took it with me. We stamped every left facing tool in the store and every one of them was crap, nowhere near a match to the other one. He ordered more and we went through probably 15 more later and still had problems getting an acceptable stamp. Now as far as the S630 seeder Tina you are right that one needs to be sent back and a better one sent to you. Dale, you are partly right about some rules have changed, but you/we have to remember that when most of the crafttools were designed, they were designed for drawings and sketches bye the old Masters. They used them differently than some do today. Actually they are perfect for the pictures/designs that they were made for. When we, today try to use them for something different, it's up to us to change and maybe use a different tool. I agree also that the Crafttools, Craft Japan, Ivan, etc., are a good value for people starting out in our passion. I got started in leather working back in 1974. I learned from Al Stolhman, Al Shelton, Ken Griffen, Paul Burnett, etc. I knew about Robb Barr, and a bunch of other from the old MIWL magazines. I went a while and didn't do much leather work and when I started back in 2005 I found the IILG and joined them. One of the first things I read on emails was that I had to have Bob Beard tools, or Barry King, or Ellis Barnes, or some other tool makers tools or my carving wouldn't be right, just not good enough without some high dollar tools. That is a bunch of crap. Those makers make a first class quality product, and I'm sure that they will help with a lot of things, and make some of your/my work better. If you think about it how many out there, if you're just starting out, will/would pull out $80/ $90 or more per tool, just to get a basic set from set Bob Beard. That would work out to about $630 for a basic 7 starter set. I hope to upgrade some of my basic tools soon and I will be getting better basketweave stamps and border tools too, but I don't need every tool that is made. Sorry about rambling on so, and I feel the pain too. There has got to be something done about the quality of the entry level tools. Maybe if we all write/email say Tandy Management about it they might do something. JoHan says that they want to get all the old tools and use them to make new castings, why can't they use what they have and go ahead and get some decent tools out now. What would be wrong with doing it in phases. In the long run it would probably be an encourgement to beginning leather workers, allowing them to do decent work right out of the chute. Any way enough from and old fart for now, but remember like my old buddy Dave Howell always tells me: if you can't drive a nail with a $5.00 hammer, you can't drive one with a $50.00 one either, so everybodies got to practice and learn. Bye and may God bless each and every one here on the Leatherworker.net/forum. Billy P

[Billy P]

I'm so sorry to add another reply, but I forgot one important thing I meant to mention. Clay Miller, Froghunter, and I am sure a lot more no the forum are Tandy managers. If you're not getting satisfaction from the Tandy you're using now give one of our friends and members a call. I'll bet if you tell them what you do and what you want and what you expect when you order tools, leather, etc., that they will make every effort to see that you get what you want. Billy P

[HarryB]

Just a little history; Tandy's used to buy their tools from Craftool Company, their dyes from Omega

Chemical, their lace from a small company and their leather from Bona Allen Tannery. Then they gradually bought all of them. It was great for a while and then Tandy started selling off its assets. Craftools used to all have the designs ground in by hand, well chrome plated and finished. Then came "new" technology and there went the quality. I bought a few tools from Hidecrafters a few years back that were TERRIBLE. The tool shaft bent like rubber after a few strokes! When I complained, the then owner George Hurst gladly replaced them with more defective tools and explained that they were made somewhere overseas and the problem had been addressed. The problem was that George had to order in lots of 1000s to get his pricing down. How long does it take to sell 1 or 2000 of one particular stamp?! I wish we could find a company that made decent tools in the $15-$20 range. It just ain't out there. Problem is, where I used to pay $4 or $5 for some decent tools, I now spend $40 -$50 for decent tools. Big difference.