thekid77 Report post Posted October 9, 2015 Hey friends, when saddle stitching a long run that requires you to change threads, how do you keep from spoiling the look of the stitch line? What I mean is that if you are stitching with white thread against a dark leather, the part where you changed threads bulges bigger than the other neighboring threads because the thread is doubled in the place where you changed threads.... I've seen hand stitched belts that don't appear to have any spots where the threads were changed..... Any ideas? Thank you in advance for any experience you could share!! :D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penguineer Report post Posted October 9, 2015 For reference - I'm assuming that you stitch towards yourself(ie starting at the far end of the work and working back towards yourself) and you are right handed(left hand is on the back/inside of the workpiece). Stitch using the original thread to the point where you want to change over. Preferably have a couple of inches of thread left. Cut the needles off, leaving a couple of inches of the ends of the old thread attached to the work. Prepare your new thread and attach needles. Grab the two ends of the old thread in your left(back side) hand, pull them towards yourself and hold them as you push the needle through the last hole, behind the last stich. If you are working with one hand inside the workpiece, both hands pull the loose ends forward and the right hand feeds the needle through as well. Middle the new thread, and resume stitching as normal. You should end up with the new thread running over the top of the last stitch and the two ends sticking up in the middle of the work. When you've finished stitching, go back and cut off the threads close to the leather surface. Using a small/thin blade like a scalpel works well. Does that make sense? Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mlapaglia Report post Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) This may help also. Its from Tandy's Lacing and Stitching book. Start with #13. #12 us there because its referenced in #15. Edited October 9, 2015 by mlapaglia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thekid77 Report post Posted October 9, 2015 For reference - I'm assuming that you stitch towards yourself(ie starting at the far end of the work and working back towards yourself) and you are right handed(left hand is on the back/inside of the workpiece). Stitch using the original thread to the point where you want to change over. Preferably have a couple of inches of thread left. Cut the needles off, leaving a couple of inches of the ends of the old thread attached to the work. Prepare your new thread and attach needles. Grab the two ends of the old thread in your left(back side) hand, pull them towards yourself and hold them as you push the needle through the last hole, behind the last stich. If you are working with one hand inside the workpiece, both hands pull the loose ends forward and the right hand feeds the needle through as well. Middle the new thread, and resume stitching as normal. You should end up with the new thread running over the top of the last stitch and the two ends sticking up in the middle of the work. When you've finished stitching, go back and cut off the threads close to the leather surface. Using a small/thin blade like a scalpel works well. Does that make sense? Cheers! Hi Penguin, yes, that makes sense and that is what I have been doing...but when you do that, when the new thread runs over the top of the previous thread, it makes a bulge (since the threads are doubled over in that area)..... I was wondering if there is a way to change the thread without going over the previous thread?? This may help also. Its from Tandy's Lacing and Stitching book. Start with #13. #12 us there because its referenced in #15. splice saddle stitch.JPG Thank you mplaglia, that's exactly what I've been doing, but on a long run of stitching, the place where the threads overlap when you chnge threads looks fatter thn the rest of the stitches and ruins the stitch line, expecially when you have a contrast such as white thread against black leather... any ideas on how to change threads, securing the old thread without having to overlap? I'm thinking burn the ends maybe? or put a drop of 2 part epoxy or super glue on the ends of the old thread?? what do you think? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted October 10, 2015 (edited) If you double cast the last stitch it forms a knot in the hole. Pass the needles back through with a cast and you have a surgeons knot inside the hole. Cut ends flush Restart with a new thread. After hammering the seam the spot disappears. I also try to pass the new thread right through the knot inside the hole if i can.This won't work in thinner leathers. Also, When sewing with linen you can taper the ends of both threads to limit the bulge. Edited October 10, 2015 by TinkerTailor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penguineer Report post Posted October 10, 2015 I just had a look at that drawing and the book. What's different the way I do things is creating a knot with each stitch, this is hidden inside each stitch hole. The drawing shows the new thread starting one stitch back, so you get that doubling up over a full stitch. I start the new thread in the last hole of the old one, so the only crossover is at the very end of the old thread(not a full stitch back) and the new thread locks the old thread in place....... Make sense? Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckBurrows Report post Posted October 10, 2015 If your using a stitch groover just deepen the groove a bit for the changeover - run an overstitch wheel after and you will negate most of the extra thickness. When looking at others folks work it behooves one to know if they are using a machine or sewing by hand. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
penguineer Report post Posted October 11, 2015 Hmmmm....I was warned about this........ I learned hand sewing years ago from a saddler that had gone to the USA on a study tour. He was able to point out a lot of the differences between Aussie and US hand sewing(eg I only use an overstitch wheel for marking, as it's what I have rather than setting stitches)....... This thread just seemed to highlight a few of the differences he talked about, so what I'm doing "as normal" is possibly a bit strange to follow for others..... Cheers! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TinkerTailor Report post Posted October 11, 2015 (edited) Hmmmm....I was warned about this........ I learned hand sewing years ago from a saddler that had gone to the USA on a study tour. He was able to point out a lot of the differences between Aussie and US hand sewing(eg I only use an overstitch wheel for marking, as it's what I have rather than setting stitches)....... This thread just seemed to highlight a few of the differences he talked about, so what I'm doing "as normal" is possibly a bit strange to follow for others..... Cheers! This is how i stitch and i live in canada and am basically self taught. Its funny how many ways ther are to do some of these things correctly. Thing is, each has its advantage in the right situation. A stitching technique for saddles may not work at all for a boot sole for instance. So much to learn, and everytime i learn something, i find 3 more things i need to know..... I find if i cast(knot) the stitch in every hole, i can pull the stitch up way tighter, even tight enough to sink the stitch line below the surface. Obviously this technique isn't for thinner projects and i have pulled too tight and had the stitch pop before. Ever seen old saddles or boots which are so worn they look like there is only a dot of thread left in the stitch hole? If you dig out the tread you will find the knot in every hole. The knot will expand in the hole locking against the sides, making the stitching much stronger. I also have wet the leather along the stitch line after pricking to soften it a bit and help the stitches sink in. Here is one i sank pretty deep, no overstitch or hammering on this. Edited October 11, 2015 by TinkerTailor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thekid77 Report post Posted October 11, 2015 If you double cast the last stitch it forms a knot in the hole. Pass the needles back through with a cast and you have a surgeons knot inside the hole. Cut ends flush Restart with a new thread. After hammering the seam the spot disappears. I also try to pass the new thread right through the knot inside the hole if i can.This won't work in thinner leathers. Also, When sewing with linen you can taper the ends of both threads to limit the bulge. I hadn't thought of this, and I'll give it a try! Thank you I just had a look at that drawing and the book. What's different the way I do things is creating a knot with each stitch, this is hidden inside each stitch hole. The drawing shows the new thread starting one stitch back, so you get that doubling up over a full stitch. I start the new thread in the last hole of the old one, so the only crossover is at the very end of the old thread(not a full stitch back) and the new thread locks the old thread in place....... Make sense? Cheers! Thank you Penguin! If your using a stitch groover just deepen the groove a bit for the changeover - run an overstitch wheel after and you will negate most of the extra thickness. When looking at others folks work it behooves one to know if they are using a machine or sewing by hand. Hey Chuck, thank you for the advice....I don't use a groover because I hate that tool with a passion......best way for a newb like me to ruin a near-finished project....I have seen hand stitched items with long stitch runs where there is no visible spot or obvious spot where the thread has been changed....this has puzzled me for a while now..... btw I love your work!!! :D Hmmmm....I was warned about this........ I learned hand sewing years ago from a saddler that had gone to the USA on a study tour. He was able to point out a lot of the differences between Aussie and US hand sewing(eg I only use an overstitch wheel for marking, as it's what I have rather than setting stitches)....... This thread just seemed to highlight a few of the differences he talked about, so what I'm doing "as normal" is possibly a bit strange to follow for others..... Cheers! :D This is how i stitch and i live in canada and am basically self taught. Its funny how many ways ther are to do some of these things correctly. Thing is, each has its advantage in the right situation. A stitching technique for saddles may not work at all for a boot sole for instance. So much to learn, and everytime i learn something, i find 3 more things i need to know..... I find if i cast(knot) the stitch in every hole, i can pull the stitch up way tighter, even tight enough to sink the stitch line below the surface. Obviously this technique isn't for thinner projects and i have pulled too tight and had the stitch pop before. Ever seen old saddles or boots which are so worn they look like there is only a dot of thread left in the stitch hole? If you dig out the tread you will find the knot in every hole. The knot will expand in the hole locking against the sides, making the stitching much stronger. I also have wet the leather along the stitch line after pricking to soften it a bit and help the stitches sink in. Here is one i sank pretty deep, no overstitch or hammering on this. I do cast the thread on each stitch and I've noticed it really locks the threads into place Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
panchoskywalker Report post Posted October 11, 2015 I'm no expert, I haven't read any book, but this is how I do it. First when I finish the stitch I don't burn the end, I hide the the thread between leather layers. I work on small things so I just pull the needle between the leather till the other side and sometimes put a tiny amount of loctite just to be sure the thread won't move. When I do this I don't end both stitch at the same hole to avoid your problem, so the last hole has already 1 thread "layer". Then I just start from that hole with the new thread. Again, I am no expert so I'm sorry if this sound stupid. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
