Suggestions For Small Diameter Cylinder Bed Machines?

[Gjallerhorn]

I'm a few short weeks away from purchasing a stitching machine to get a new venture off the ground. I'm pretty certain I know what I need in terms of features / performance, and I've done a lot of research on my own, but I'm not finding a ton of options to meet my criteria, so I thought I'd reach out for some advice from the fine members here.

I'm looking for:

• Narrow cylinder, < 2" diameter
• Min 8" arm length (more is OK but not required)
• Reversible
• Some type of edge guide (roller guide) that can be set in close to the needle (like 1/4")
• Complete set up including bench, motor, etc.
• Must be able comfortably stitch from 1/8" (two layers of 4 oz.) up to 3/8" (2x 4oz + 1x 6oz + 1x 8oz).
• If possible I'd like to go up to 7/16" ( 4x 4 oz + 1x 8oz + 1x 4oz) as the maximum that I would typically be doing.
• Must have reliable customer service / support.
• Representation in the Los Angeles area (or somewhere in the southwest) would be ideal but not a requirement.
• Budget is an issue - need to keep it < $2500 complete.
• Willing to go for used or refurbished for a good deal.

TechSew, Artisan, and some others have some narrow cylinder machines, but their specs say max thicknesses of 5/16" or 3/8". Since that would be a standard thickness for me to be stitching (and I'd like to be able to go thicker) I feel like I might be needing to look at more heavy duty machine. But everything I'm finding that is more heavy duty has a much larger cylinder (like 3.5"+ diameter).

I've even started looking at shoe sidewall stitchers look like they would work for some of what I need to do (like running a seam around the end of a 2.25" radius tube), but have serious versatility drawbacks and pricing seems a little elusive on these.

As I'm just getting started, I'm looking for something really versatile, reliable, and economical. Of course that's asking a lot, so I'd love to hear your thoughts on what I should be looking into!

Thanks,

Richard.

[soccerdad]

Richard, my wish list is similar, so I'm eager to hear what the experts offer here. A related question: What, if any, is the mechanical requirement for machines that sew thicker to have a large diameter cylinder? In other words, is it mechanically feasible to build something like a Juki 441 with a cylinder that is, say, 2" in diameter and that could use thread up to, say, 270? Thanks, Dale

[TinkerTailor]

Richard, my wish list is similar, so I'm eager to hear what the experts offer here. A related question: What, if any, is the mechanical requirement for machines that sew thicker to have a large diameter cylinder? In other words, is it mechanically feasible to build something like a Juki 441 with a cylinder that is, say, 2" in diameter and that could use thread up to, say, 270? Thanks, Dale

Above and beyond the machine part strength, Alot has to do with bobbin size. If you made a 441 arm 2" around you probably could only fit 3 feet of thread on the bobbin with 270......Fat thread needs big bobbins.

[soccerdad]

Tinker, I meant to say 207 for the bobbin, but I assume the same idea applies.

Richard, apologies my question detracts from yours.

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

From what I can see, this is the most closely related machine that may work;

http://www.consew.com/View/Consew-Model-277RB-1

[TinkerTailor]

Tinker, I meant to say 207 for the bobbin, but I assume the same idea applies.

Richard, apologies my question detracts from yours.

Yeah same idea. There is more to it than that as well.

Bigger thread=bigger needles.

Bigger thread needs longer stitch lengths, which require more foot and feed dog movement which require a bigger cylinder to fit it all in.

Sometimes the bobbin case doesn't have the clearance to make the loop and catch it with big thread, regardless of the bobbin size.

Your question was actually on point because the thread size you use is also a factor in the machine you get. I sew alot of thinner, smaller stuff (1/4"-3/8") but use heavy thread so the bigger machine was a better choice. For the smaller thread, 69, 92, 138, i intend on getting a second flatbed unless i find a screaming deal on a pfaff 335. Missed one for 400 bux a year or so ago....

[Uwe]

I think main problem is your requirement of skinny 2" arm with ability to sew 1/2" at the same time. There is no such machine as far as I know. The usual skinny arm suspects of Pfaff 335 and Adler 69 class machines don't sew thick stacks of leather and they have tiny bobbins limited thread size capabilities. I'm having a hard time thinking up a project using 1/2 thick material, 2 1/4" inch diameter and no overlap.

Realistically, you are looking at two machines to cover the spectrum of sewing tasks you're looking to do. With a little luck you may find two used clones and stay within your budget.

[Uwe]

Since something will have to give on your requirements list anyways, check out the Durkopp Adler 669:

It's the closest thing to your spec list I've come across. It will sew 0.4", has a 0.8" foot lift and a thin arm.

Price new runs an eye watering $7.6K from Weaver Leather (considerably less if sign up for a business account). Like Henry Ford once said "If you need a machine and don't buy it, you pay for it without getting it."

Edited January 22, 2016 by Uwe

[Gjallerhorn]

That Adler 669 is surely a thing of beauty - unfortunately budget isn't one of the criteria I can sacrifice!

Anyone know if there are decent clones in a reasonable price range?

Right now I think I'm leaning towards a TechSew 2600. Their specs say 3/8" and I've rethought design on my thickest part a little bit to get it down to 5/16".

My question on that idea is if the machine can really handle doing 4-5 layers totaling 5/16" for about 30% - 40% of overall daily use, or if that's pushing it too hard?

[Uwe]

There are no clones of the latest OEM offerings as far as I know. Only machines of older designs with expired patents generally get the clone treatment, even if the original machines are still in production (e.g. Juki TSC-441).

Ron at TechSew should be able to answer questions about the TechSew 2600. Call him to get first hand - if slightly biased - info on their machines. They have some incentive to tell you what the machine can and cannot handle, because they don't want the machines coming back or be warranty nightmares.

[TinkerTailor]

Since something will have to give on your requirements list anyways, check out the Durkopp Adler 669:

It's the closest thing to your spec list I've come across. It will sew 0.4", has a 0.8" foot lift and a thin arm.

Price new runs an eye watering $7.6K from Weaver Leather (considerably less if sign up for a business account). Like Henry Ford once said "If you need a machine and don't buy it, you pay for it without getting it."

I see your dream machine and raise you this:

I do not want to know the price:

http://www.campbell-randall.com/machines/sewing-machines/omac-669180010-eos-reduced-cylinder-arm-sewing-machine/

[Darren Brosowski]

Basic engineering;

The heavier the material and thread you want to work with - the heavier the body needs to be to give the required stiffness.

The industrial sewing machine business is very conservative in terms of design. While it is possible to build a large bobbin small diameter arm machine nobody is prepared to step out from the norm.