Adler 267 Or Juki 1341

[lincsleatherman]

Looking at a new machine and wondering how these 2 machines compare?

I currently have a very old little Singer for my lightweight materials and an equally old Adler 105 for the heavy stuff.

However there are increasingly times when I need something less hefty than the 105 but considerably stronger than the old Singer.

I'm talking about a machine to do upto 8 or 9mm of veg tan leather but with control and finess.

The Adler, on paper seems to be the sort of thing I'm looking for if fitted with a servo and the Juki would appear to be the equivalent but don't really know anything about Jukis.

Any input would be much appreciated as well as any other recommendations.

Please remember I'm in the UK so no cowboy machines etc that aren't available over here.

Many thanks all.

Jon

[Wizcrafts]

Any triple feed walking foot machine will sew leather up to 9 or 10 millimeters. There will be differences in the thread handling capacities of the different styles and sizes of hooks and shuttles. But, almost every one of these upholstery grade machines will sew up to #138 bonded nylon/polyester thread. Some have bigger bobbins than others. Some may have extra clearance in the hook to pass #207 thread, but most can't.

If the machines you are looking at are used, make sure you check them out in person and see them sewing your sample pieces of leather.

If you're buying new, get a parts warranty on the machine and a guarantee of technical phone or email support from the seller.

There is another matter to consider and that is the cost of parts for the respective brands. Adler and Pfaff replacement parts, if needed, can be very expensive. Juki and Consew parts are less costly, in the overall scheme of things.

[lincsleatherman]

Thanks for that, really was looking for some specific feed back.

I have had a machine supplier bring a couple of machines over to test on my products (a Juki, Global & Wimsew) but none of them could produce a decent consistent stitch with 6-8 mm of leather and varying layers. All of them were described as compound feed, medium to heavy weight servo machines.

[Wizcrafts]

Thanks for that, really was looking for some specific feed back.

I have had a machine supplier bring a couple of machines over to test on my products (a Juki, Global & Wimsew) but none of them could produce a decent consistent stitch with 6-8 mm of leather and varying layers. All of them were described as compound feed, medium to heavy weight servo machines.

Hmmm. Let's see.

I've sewn lots of leather projects that are 8 or 9 mm thick, with multiple layers and gotten great stitches. I'm curious if you are referring to the top, bottom, or both sides?

If top, the geometry of the needle has a lot to do with the appearance of the top stitches. Some leather point needles produce a straight line of stitches. Others produce slants to the left or right. Simply changing to a different type of leather point can change that stitch line's appearance or lay. Using a regular round/sharp point needle in leather can have disastrous effects. Too large of a needle make a hole that is too loose to secure the knots inside the layers. Too small and the knots are hard to pull up and will be visible on the bottom.

If the correct size and shape of needle is being used, but the knots are visible on the top or bottom, there is a fault either in the top or bottom tension adjustments, the thread itself, the top thread path to the needle, or the way the bobbin is wound. Knots that are consistently on the top indicate that either the needle is much too big, or the overall top tension is much too tight, or that the bobbin thread is not feeding under the bobbin tension spring, or that is under the spring but the tension screw has backed off to zero bobbin tension.

If the knots lay on the bottom, either the needle is too small, the top tension is too loose, or the bobbin spring is too tight, or a combination of the above.

Knots that move up and down indicate an intermittent change in tension. This can be caused by top thread that was over-dyed, or double dyed and comes off the spool like a coil spring. Try wrapping it around a post on top of the machine in the opposite direction of its natural coil. It can also be caused by foreign material caught inside the tension disks or thread guides, or even a bad needle that is gummed up or nicked.

Sometimes, when you finish winding a bobbin and cutting off the starting thread, you may have a thread stub sticking out of the starting hole. That thread stub can drag once per cycle on an anti-backlash spring, or on the inside of the shuttle. Make sure you snip the bobbin thread stubs clean off right at the metal hole it comes out of.

Another often overlooked cause of bad knot placement is the check spring. Its job is to maintain tension on the top thread as the take-up lever moves down. It's supposed to hold it taut until the tip of the needle meets the top of the material. The purpose it to prevent the needle from splitting loose top thread as it hits the material. If the throw of the check spring is too long or short, the stitch placement can be affected. If it has too little tension it won't do a good job of following the thread. It it's too tight, the thread may go into the material with too much tension on top. This could cause little puckers on top, or drag the knots higher up that you expect.

Finally, machines that can't produce a decent and consistent stitch and knot placement may be operating beyond their current capabilities. It could be a misadjustment, wear in the take-up or bobbin area, or the thread is too tough or wide to be tensioned smoothly.

So, what size needle and thread have you or your dealers tried to use that failed in those machines? A light duty walking foot machine may have been originally setup to be optimized for #69 bonded nylon, using a #18 needle. It may not work well with #138 thread and a #23 needle. In fact, it may hit the needle head on or deflect it into the feed dog block instead of passing close to it in the scarf above the eye.

You may need a heavier duty class of machine if the standard upholstery machines can't sew your leather to your satisfaction. There are flat bed machines made to sew with heavier thread sizes and bigger needles than upholstery machines. Everything is beefed up on these beasts. They are to standard walking foot machines what those machines are to domestic sewing machines. Maybe you need to look into a Juki LU-1508NH. Or, check out the extra heavy duty flatbed machines based on the Juki 441 or Adler 205 mechanisms.

Better yet, read the specs on the Cowboy CB3200 that is set up and sold by Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines. It might be your huckleberry.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Wizcrafts

[Uwe]

Since you're in the U.K. you should get in touch with the folks at https://college-sewing.co.uk They carry the full line of Juki machines and can also help guide you toward specific well-suited models and answer specific questions about your particular needs. Support and parts sourcing will be good, I suspect.

To get more specific advice you also need to tell us what specifically your don't like about your current stitch consistency. What exactly is it that you consider not consistent or decent in your current stitches? Otherwise we're just playing a very subjective guessing game.

Most industrial machines also need to be carefully adjusted to produce the best possible results for a specific operation. Having somebody stop by with a couple machines (that's great service right there!!!!) and run a few test samples may not do the machine justice, as it may have been adjusted for a different task.

You also do need to decide if you want/need a flatbed (Adler 267 style) or a cylinder arm (Juki 1341 style), otherwise comparisons will be hard to match up. If you don't need a cylinder arm, the flatbed machines often have beefier bits around the hook area, simply because there's much more room to work with under the flatbed, compared to very tight quarters inside a cylinder arm.

Personally, I think the Juki LU-1508NH is a very interesting machine that just might meet your needs and deserves a closer look. Juki has put some serious engineering into that perfectly rectangular feed motion and it may help improve stitch quality on tricky materials.

Another alternative for European sourced machines is Typical. They have a strong presence in Europe and make very good quality clones. I saw one of their TW1-1245HL14 (a long arm Pfaff 1245 clone) in a leather bag shop in Germany and I was seriously impressed with the apparent quality of construction and finish.

The bottom line really is that many machines are capable of doing what you ask, but actually making them do it, however, is up to you and your sewing machine mechanic.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Uwe

[lincsleatherman]

Thanks Uwe, your right I mistakenly put down the Adler but I am actually looking for a cylinder arm.

I wonder if my experience so far has been tarnished because of poor service? I sent the company samples of my product & leather which they said was no problem and claim to have trialled & set the machines up but when they got here they couldn't repeat the performance and 1 by 1 they all went back. Have to say it left me very disillusioned so when I found the 105 I snapped it up and haven't looked back.

Half the problem is being in Lincolnshire every dealer is at least a 2 or 3 hour drive away and I just don't have time to waste driving round the country.

Wonder if Juki do a cylinder arm version of the machine you mention, is it a better machine than the 1341?

Edited January 25, 2016 by lincsleatherman

[Uwe]

The Juki LS-1341 actually IS a cylinder arm machine and it would be a very good candidate for a machine to fit just below your Adler 105 in material and thread handling capability.

It's the Durkopp Adler 267 that is a flatbed machine, the cylinder arm version is called 269 and it is similar in capabilities to the Juki LS-1341.

With any machine, you can't quite expect them to arrive set up perfectly for what you want to do, or stay that way forever. They will need some tweaking/adjusting upon arrival and they will need to be re-adjusted if you significantly change any aspect of what you're sewing. They are not set-it-once-and-forget-it types of machines.

You really need to spend some quality time learning how to adjust the machine yourself, especially if you're far away from other folks who could do this for you.

Make sure that proper documentation like a good service manual is available for the machine you're buying. That way you'll be able to check for and fix minor problems yourself and not have to send or take the machine in for service every time something is just a little off. Keep it simple and don't get auto tread-cutter and other finicky features.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Uwe

[lincsleatherman]

Thanks Uwe got myself turned around with numbers there.

Might have to spend a few hours on the relavent companies websites and try to come up with a short list, guess it's then a case of trying to find someone within range who carries some or all of the list to go and have a look at.

Don't know how things work in the states but retailers in UK don't come and spend hours and hours trying different setups with you it seems to be pretty much tell them what you want and it arrives in a box.

Right work to do I reckon.